mechanics

Oklahoma official · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:00pm

10 second count - signal is always to the middle of court or always towards the scorer's table? Which is it?

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2005, 10:06pm

The manual doesn't require the count to be in any particular direction. My 10-second count is always toward the table, however. It was suggested to me at camp, and I adopted it.

Kelvin green · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 12:26am

This is where I think we get overly silly. If you have a good visible count who cares?

This is where someone who is evaluating has more time on their hands and starts to make stuff up.

This has absolutley no bearing on how you ref the game. Some people think it is easier for coaches to see if we do it at the table.

When you do a 5 second count which way do we do it? probably both because most of us switch from hold to dribble to hold, and then we are on different sides of floor as trail?

Even when we do count coaches second guess. I ask them if my arm was just out there flappping?

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 12:35am

Chuck will not be surprised because I completely disagree with him.

I agree with Kevin on this. I think it is really unimportant which direction you give your 10 second count. Everyone can see my count regardless of which direction it is facing.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Nov 10th, 2005 at 12:47 AM]

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 08:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Chuck will not be surprised because I completely disagree with him.

I agree with Kevin on this. I think it is really unimportant which direction you give your 10 second count.

You may be surprised, but I agree with you and Kelvin.

I don't think it's terribly important. I adopted it when somebody mentioned it at camp as giving the coaches a better view that you are actually counting. It's just a habit now. But I agree that if I'm observing an official, I don't even mention it and I certainly wouldn't downgrade a rating b/c of it.

I didn't mean to give the impression that it was the only correct way to do it. As I mentioned, the manual makes no such requirement.

bgtg19 · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 09:13am

I could be completely off base here, but I think the original question may be asking: When there is a 10-second violation, where and to whom does the official signal the violation?

If that is the question, I would say that the proper mechanic would be to: (a) raise the open hand to stop the clock, (b) face the table and signal a 10-second vioalation with both hands up and fingers spread, (c) point to the spot where the throw in will occur, and (d) signal the direction in which play will resume.

If the question is which direction to show/make your visible count, I agree with the others that it is only important to make your count visible, consistent and clear.

mj · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 09:42am

I think this was more applicable a few years ago when all that was required on a count was a subtle flick of the wrist. That changed about 5-6 years ago though.

If you have a good count, everyone should be able to see that you are indeed counting.

zebraman · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 11:23am

I'm right there with Chuck.

When I'm evaluating an official, I couldn't care less which arm they count with.

When I'm officiating, I count with the hand that is closest to the scorer's table. Why? Because I was told that a couple times when I was first starting reffing so I know that there are a few overly picky folks out there that it matters to.

Z

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
You may be surprised, but I agree with you and Kelvin. I don't think it's terribly important.

Chuck,

I was just giving you **** because you spend a lot of posts trying to point out why you agree with me or not. Even if we disagreed, we live in two completely different areas of the country. If you moved here you would have to adopt a lot of things if you wanted to be considered a good official or to get certain games. The same would probably be in reverse if I were to move where you live. I was just having a little fun.

Peace

tomegun · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bgtg19
I could be completely off base here, but I think the original question may be asking: When there is a 10-second violation, where and to whom does the official signal the violation?

If that is the question, I would say that the proper mechanic would be to: (a) raise the open hand to stop the clock, (b) face the table and signal a 10-second vioalation with both hands up and fingers spread, (c) point to the spot where the throw in will occur, and (d) signal the direction in which play will resume.

If the question is which direction to show/make your visible count, I agree with the others that it is only important to make your count visible, consistent and clear.

I disagree with this. Facing the table could mean putting your back to the players and/or court.

I agree with most of the points already mentioned. I count towards the table out of habit but it isn't going to make or break an evaluation.

sndevil99 · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 02:37pm

In Arizona---Evaluators will tell us to try and count with the arm that is facing the table, that way the coaches and the table can have a clearer view of where your at in the count.

Oklahoma official · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 06:35pm

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate your responses, but I guess there is no right answer, just make sure everyone can see the count. My last evaluation made a statement about my count, not always towards the center of the court, I did not know that was the right mechanic, so I asked and found out that it doesn't make a difference, as long as you count and everyone can see it. Thanks.

ChrisSportsFan · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by sndevil99
In Arizona---Evaluators will tell us to try and count with the arm that is facing the table, that way the coaches and the table can have a clearer view of where your at in the count.

Are you saying that in Arizona the coaches and table are watching your arm and counting in their head how many swings you've made?

I think once they start playing/coaching upper level, most players and coaches have a 3/5/10 second timer in their head. They know when they're getting pretty close.

johnnyrao · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 11:08pm

I was taught that you should use the hand opposite the one you used for the five second count on a throw-in so it is clear that the five second count is complete and the 10 second count has begun. So, if you are administering a throw-in table side you will do the five second count with the arm closest to the table and then use your arm farther from the table for the 10 second signal. That's what I was taught to do.

[Edited by johnnyrao on Nov 10th, 2005 at 11:10 PM]

mj · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 11, 2005, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by johnnyrao
I was taught that you should use the hand opposite the one you used for the five second count on a throw-in so it is clear that the five second count is complete and the 10 second count has begun. So, if you are administering a throw-in table side you will do the five second count with the arm closest to the table and then use your arm farther from the table for the 10 second signal. That's what I was taught to do.

[Edited by johnnyrao on Nov 10th, 2005 at 11:10 PM]

I do the same. Whatever hand I chop the clock in with is the one I count with.

If I don't have to chop, I just pick one or the other.