LL Bat Question

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Of course, Tim has long established that he doesn't care about basic issues of game management like player eligibility, which is why he'd be eaten alive by Little League managers.

Lil,

I hardly think that Tee would get eaten alive by any managers, much less Little League managers. I would submit that Tee would send any such manager packing in a heartbeat who got up the nerve to try to intimidate him.

I have yet to encounter an intimidating Little League manager. So very few of them have any knowledge of the rules whatsoever, and most wouldn't have any clue about eligibility rules. Every time I've seen an argument about eligibilty issues, they always need to consult with a director or board member to straighten it out.

I certainly don't put up with a whole lot when dropping down to work Little League, and I doubt that Tee would, if he ever worked that level just for kicks.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Lil,

I hardly think that Tee would get eaten alive by any managers, much less Little League managers. I would submit that Tee would send any such manager packing in a heartbeat who got up the nerve to try to intimidate him.

I have yet to encounter an intimidating Little League manager. So very few of them have any knowledge of the rules whatsoever, and most wouldn't have any clue about eligibility rules. Every time I've seen an argument about eligibilty issues, they always need to consult with a director or board member to straighten it out.

I certainly don't put up with a whole lot when dropping down to work Little League, and I doubt that Tee would, if he ever worked that level just for kicks.

Well, I admit I overstretched with my original statement. The opportunity to turn-about some phrases that were thrown in my direction recently was too strong a temptation. What I mean is that Tee would mismanage a Little League game (perhaps by ejecting managers as a reaction to his mistakes). This shouldn't really be considered an insult (though I'm sure that he would, if he saw it), because Tee doesn't want to be a competent Little League umpire.

So I'll put myself in a situation. Imagine that I jump into a NFHS game, arrogantly imagining that I have the skills, and I misapply a rule. The offended Manager comes out, we argue, and when I'm starting to feel intimidated, I eject him.

Has that been good game management?

The point is, having the guts to eject a manager is not (at least in my mind) the end of game management.

The eligibility rules in the book are not the difficult. LLDan will be able to master them in a year or two, if he applies himself. I know that on the field you can't determine where Johnny actually lives or how many innings he pitched on Tuesday, but an experienced Little League umpire should be able to apply the rules to the facts. Next year, for example, I'll know what the pitch count rules are, though I won't be actually counting the pitches.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Well, I admit I overstretched with my original statement. The opportunity to turn-about some phrases that were thrown in my direction recently was too strong a temptation. What I mean is that Tee would mismanage a Little League game (perhaps by ejecting managers as a reaction to his mistakes). This shouldn't really be considered an insult (though I'm sure that he would, if he saw it), because Tee doesn't want to be a competent Little League umpire.

So I'll put myself in a situation. Imagine that I jump into a NFHS game, arrogantly imagining that I have the skills, and I misapply a rule. The offended Manager comes out, we argue, and when I'm starting to feel intimidated, I eject him.

Has that been good game management?

The point is, having the guts to eject a manager is not (at least in my mind) the end of game management.

The eligibility rules in the book are not the difficult. LLDan will be able to master them in a year or two, if he applies himself. I know that on the field you can't determine where Johnny actually lives or how many innings he pitched on Tuesday, but an experienced Little League umpire should be able to apply the rules to the facts. Next year, for example, I'll know what the pitch count rules are, though I won't be actually counting the pitches.

Why would I, a LL umpire, CARE about player eligibility rules? I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to quote them to anyone. The proper answer is "you need to discuss with your district administrator."

We all have jobs. When umpiring, my job is "umpire."

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why would I, a LL umpire, CARE about player eligibility rules? I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to quote them to anyone. The proper answer is "you need to discuss with your district administrator."

We all have jobs. When umpiring, my job is "umpire."

In a regular season Minor League game:

Coach Tim: I'm starting Johnny at Pitcher.
Coach Alan: He's a 12 year old, isn't he?
Coach Tim: Yes. So?
Coach Alan: Chris, you know a 12-year old can't pitch in a Minor League game.
Umpire Chris: Well, player eligibility isn't my problem. Let's find a district adminstrator or something.
Coach Tim: There aren't any around. I'm pitching Johnny.
Coach Alan: Well, I'm playing the game under protest.

You've got a protested game, and the protest will be upheld, because Chris couldn't be bothered to even know a black-letter rule in the book. (Technically, the ineligible pitcher will cause the game to be forfeited. Of course, LL umpires are charged with avoiding forfeiture situations.)

Something like this happened in our district at the Juniors level a few years back. There was real confusion about the rules, so the umpire really couldn't have known them, and it became a real train wreck. Given the circumstances, I couldn't fault the umpire, but I was glad that he was willing to learn the rules to prevent a recurrance.

Rich, I have a lot of respect for you postings here. Heck, I have some respect for Tim C's posts. In any case, I won't tell you how to work your games.

[SAump]

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

Good one. but no they are legal. They were made that way, and the "paint" is done by them etc. Good to go. oh and if you want ill leave it up to you to throw them out

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

SA,

I think you have allowed too much LSD to get into your drinking water.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

i agree.

Rising fastballs should be banned at the youth level too; they're equally dangerous.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

In a regular season Minor League game:

Coach Tim: I'm starting Johnny at Pitcher.
Coach Alan: He's a 12 year old, isn't he?
Coach Tim: Yes. So?
Coach Alan: Chris, you know a 12-year old can't pitch in a Minor League game.
Umpire Chris: Well, player eligibility isn't my problem. Let's find a district adminstrator or something.
Coach Tim: There aren't any around. I'm pitching Johnny.
Coach Alan: Well, I'm playing the game under protest.

You've got a protested game, and the protest will be upheld, because Chris couldn't be bothered to even know a black-letter rule in the book. (Technically, the ineligible pitcher will cause the game to be forfeited. Of course, LL umpires are charged with avoiding forfeiture situations.)

Something like this happened in our district at the Juniors level a few years back. There was real confusion about the rules, so the umpire really couldn't have known them, and it became a real train wreck. Given the circumstances, I couldn't fault the umpire, but I was glad that he was willing to learn the rules to prevent a recurrance.

Rich, I have a lot of respect for you postings here. Heck, I have some respect for Tim C's posts. In any case, I won't tell you how to work your games.

This conversation wouldn't even happen. The coach would protest the game and we'd start the game. Protests over player eligibility are NEVER the umpire's responsibility.