LL Bat Question

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by PWL

No need to humor me. I just felt your explanation of the rule was incomplete. I don't see where it says a bat cannot be painted though. Since there are different age levels of Little League, I believed that there was more to the rule than meets the eye. If I do aspire to become a Little League umpire, you can rest assure I will most certainly purchase a rule book and do my best to attain the knowledge necessary to enforce the rules at all age levels that which I will work. Thank you for the complete rule reference.

Actually, Rule 1.10 has another paragraph:

Originally Posted by Official Regulations of Little League Baseball

No laminated bat shall be used. Colored bats are acceptable. Painted bats made of wood are not acceptable. An illegal bat must be removed.

[SAump]

I don't suppose those black bats used by MLB players are grown in the Black Forrest.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Whats meant by that is- bats that are not painted my the manufacturer

Same way in LL with Batting Helmets- unless it comes from the factory that way, it cannot be used.

Im dead sure thats what is being implied. If it comes from the factory painted up, its legal, but it if you buy a bat and dig out a can of paint, it cannot be used (same with batting helmets)

Thanks for those people who see both sides of things. I have books, i read them. It is very true that the books (LL) are a little messed around. I pick up quickly on rules, but some stuff is just confusing. Some stuff is very hard to remember, like substitution rules, so if something does happen we have the book.. I dont know anyone that knows the book by heart. Its almost impossible, with all thats in there.

[SAump]

Things would be different if it leads to an unfair advantage. Those manufacturers make a ton of money on baseball. MLB and LL are in business to make money and these rules are made with other financial reasons in mind and can change on whim over time. A six year old girl may want to place a decal on her helmet to differentiate her helmet from all the others. I wouldn't concern myself with MOST of the fine print. She still has to reach first base. I can't wait for those high STIRRUP socks and white cleats to make a comeback. I think it would lower some of the current MLB ERA's. Did you see Pedro cry the other day?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Nobody said that a laminated bat is a painted bat.

Laminated bats are not allowed. Bats painted by the consumer are not allowed. The rule doesn't mean that you can't use a bat painted at the factory. Some people do paint their bats with regular old paint, right from the can. That is what the rule is prohibiting. That's why the rule said that colored bats are legal. They were painted at the factory, and therefore legal.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by PWL

All bats do not come from the factory. If you mean the factory to be a little independent bat maker that works out of their garage. I know of at least three people that turn bats.

Are you referring to paint or stain? No one paints their bats at the "factory". They stain them. They can use a clear stain. I simply gave the definition of what is a laminated bat. When was the last time you ruled a bat illegal for a "paint job"? Probably never.

we are talking about "factory", the makers of the bat. Meaning its done before it ever hits the shelves.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Lil,

I hardly think that Tee would get eaten alive by any managers, much less Little League managers. I would submit that Tee would send any such manager packing in a heartbeat who got up the nerve to try to intimidate him.

I have yet to encounter an intimidating Little League manager. So very few of them have any knowledge of the rules whatsoever, and most wouldn't have any clue about eligibility rules. Every time I've seen an argument about eligibilty issues, they always need to consult with a director or board member to straighten it out.

I certainly don't put up with a whole lot when dropping down to work Little League, and I doubt that Tee would, if he ever worked that level just for kicks.

Well, I admit I overstretched with my original statement. The opportunity to turn-about some phrases that were thrown in my direction recently was too strong a temptation. What I mean is that Tee would mismanage a Little League game (perhaps by ejecting managers as a reaction to his mistakes). This shouldn't really be considered an insult (though I'm sure that he would, if he saw it), because Tee doesn't want to be a competent Little League umpire.

So I'll put myself in a situation. Imagine that I jump into a NFHS game, arrogantly imagining that I have the skills, and I misapply a rule. The offended Manager comes out, we argue, and when I'm starting to feel intimidated, I eject him.

Has that been good game management?

The point is, having the guts to eject a manager is not (at least in my mind) the end of game management.

The eligibility rules in the book are not the difficult. LLDan will be able to master them in a year or two, if he applies himself. I know that on the field you can't determine where Johnny actually lives or how many innings he pitched on Tuesday, but an experienced Little League umpire should be able to apply the rules to the facts. Next year, for example, I'll know what the pitch count rules are, though I won't be actually counting the pitches.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Tim C

This is just an honest question:

As these posters have noted your answer is in Rule 1 of the Little League Rule book.

My question:

Is there a reason that you simply refuse to read the rules and look up your own answers?

Tee:

Apparently. the short answer is "no."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Wrong. (It's so cool to be able to answer Tim with impertinence.)

Somebody who aspires to be a "real" Little League umpire needs to start reading the rules at very beginning of the book. The section titled "Official Regulations" and having sections with Roman numerals is also important; it has gems about pitcher eligibility and remediation that might come up.

Of course, Tim has long established that he doesn't care about basic issues of game management like player eligibility, which is why he'd be eaten alive by Little League managers.

I umpire Little League, mostly during tournament time, and I couldn't possibly care about "pitcher eligibility." It's up to the coaches to protest that kind of thing and up to the district administrator or tournament staff to sort that out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Well, I admit I overstretched with my original statement. The opportunity to turn-about some phrases that were thrown in my direction recently was too strong a temptation. What I mean is that Tee would mismanage a Little League game (perhaps by ejecting managers as a reaction to his mistakes). This shouldn't really be considered an insult (though I'm sure that he would, if he saw it), because Tee doesn't want to be a competent Little League umpire.

So I'll put myself in a situation. Imagine that I jump into a NFHS game, arrogantly imagining that I have the skills, and I misapply a rule. The offended Manager comes out, we argue, and when I'm starting to feel intimidated, I eject him.

Has that been good game management?

The point is, having the guts to eject a manager is not (at least in my mind) the end of game management.

The eligibility rules in the book are not the difficult. LLDan will be able to master them in a year or two, if he applies himself. I know that on the field you can't determine where Johnny actually lives or how many innings he pitched on Tuesday, but an experienced Little League umpire should be able to apply the rules to the facts. Next year, for example, I'll know what the pitch count rules are, though I won't be actually counting the pitches.

Why would I, a LL umpire, CARE about player eligibility rules? I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to quote them to anyone. The proper answer is "you need to discuss with your district administrator."

We all have jobs. When umpiring, my job is "umpire."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

When was the last time you ruled a bat illegal for a "paint job"? Probably never.

No, I can't recall ever ruling a bat illegal for any reason, wait, I take that back. There was a completely out of round metal bat one time that had a flat side which I threw out of the game. But I have seen wood bats with paint, not stain, jobs on them. They looked horrible, but they were used in adult leagues. I really couldn't have cared less unless someone told me that there was a league rule against them, which nobody ever did.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Whats meant by that is- bats that are not painted my the manufacturer

Same way in LL with Batting Helmets- unless it comes from the factory that way, it cannot be used.

Im dead sure thats what is being implied. If it comes from the factory painted up, its legal, but it if you buy a bat and dig out a can of paint, it cannot be used (same with batting helmets)

A quick check of The Right Call confirms this interpretation:

Colored bats are bats that come from factory stained a certain color (brown or black). Bats painted in the family garage or basements are not legal.

Proving the old adage "even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in awhile."

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Thanks for those people who see both sides of things. I have books, i read them. It is very true that the books (LL) are a little messed around. I pick up quickly on rules, but some stuff is just confusing. Some stuff is very hard to remember, like substitution rules, so if something does happen we have the book.. I dont know anyone that knows the book by heart. Its almost impossible, with all thats in there.

What you say is true, but not for the specific question you asked in this thread. You asked a question that is clearly and explicitly answered in the rulebook, exactly where anyone with passing familiarity with how the OBR and the Little League rulebook are organized would logically look.

You're 15. Most of us realize that, and are willing to cut you the necessary slack. But you remind me of my own kids when they were your age and learning to drive. When we would go driving and I would give them instruction, which necessarily included criticism of actions they took that were ill-advised, they would get all defensive and argumentative. That's unproductive. If you really want to learn, then you're going to have to suck it up and TAKE THE CRITICISM.

The question you asked was elementary and easily self-answered with reasonable effort, and you clearly did not make that effort. We're here to help you with more substantive questions about umpiring. When you start asking those questions, I'm pretty sure you'll get more enlightening and less harsh responses.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

A quick check of The Right Call confirms this interpretation:

Colored bats are bats that come from factory stained a certain color (brown or black). Bats painted in the family garage or basements are not legal.

Proving the old adage "even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in awhile."



What you say is true, but not for the specific question you asked in this thread. You asked a question that is clearly and explicitly answered in the rulebook, exactly where anyone with passing familiarity with how the OBR and the Little League rulebook are organized would logically look.

You're 15. Most of us realize that, and are willing to cut you the necessary slack. But you remind me of my own kids when they were your age and learning to drive. When we would go driving and I would give them instruction, which necessarily included criticism of actions they took that were ill-advised, they would get all defensive and argumentative. That's unproductive. If you really want to learn, then you're going to have to suck it up and TAKE THE CRITICISM.

The question you asked was elementary and easily self-answered with reasonable effort, and you clearly did not make that effort. We're here to help you with more substantive questions about umpiring. When you start asking those questions, I'm pretty sure you'll get more enlightening and less harsh responses.

Colored bats are bats that come from factory stained a certain color (brown or black). Bats painted in the family garage or basements are not legal.

"Fine, Blue, but I painted this bat in my bedroom".

Bob

[DG]

Has anyone spotted a wood bat lately in a youth game? If so was it black?

I just bought a lottery ticket and I think my odds are about the same.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

Has anyone spotted a wood bat lately in a youth game? If so was it black?

I just bought a lottery ticket and I think my odds are about the same.

I have seen several wood bats in youth leagues this year, and one was black. I hope you win the lotto (share please!)