LL Bat Question

[SAump]

My comments are that you can become the target of a lot of OOO crap if you get to involved in color, texture and materials discusions with little Leaguers. If a certain MLB owner or large company wanted the equipment rules changed, then the rules would probably change. For example, brand NEW aluminum baseball bat barrels have a coated surface on them that remind me of a sand paper finish. I think it is very dangerous if a baseball is hit with these bats because of the additional spin it placed on the ball. So what if a player takes the roughest sand paper he can find and rubs those metal or wood bat finishes off with it until those surfaces are no longer as smooth. I have seen these metal bats in use at higher levels of play and no umpire I saw ever questioned the legality of the bat. Do you now step in and throw the bat out?

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why would I, a LL umpire, CARE about player eligibility rules? I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to quote them to anyone. The proper answer is "you need to discuss with your district administrator."

We all have jobs. When umpiring, my job is "umpire."

In a regular season Minor League game:

Coach Tim: I'm starting Johnny at Pitcher.
Coach Alan: He's a 12 year old, isn't he?
Coach Tim: Yes. So?
Coach Alan: Chris, you know a 12-year old can't pitch in a Minor League game.
Umpire Chris: Well, player eligibility isn't my problem. Let's find a district adminstrator or something.
Coach Tim: There aren't any around. I'm pitching Johnny.
Coach Alan: Well, I'm playing the game under protest.

You've got a protested game, and the protest will be upheld, because Chris couldn't be bothered to even know a black-letter rule in the book. (Technically, the ineligible pitcher will cause the game to be forfeited. Of course, LL umpires are charged with avoiding forfeiture situations.)

Something like this happened in our district at the Juniors level a few years back. There was real confusion about the rules, so the umpire really couldn't have known them, and it became a real train wreck. Given the circumstances, I couldn't fault the umpire, but I was glad that he was willing to learn the rules to prevent a recurrance.

Rich, I have a lot of respect for you postings here. Heck, I have some respect for Tim C's posts. In any case, I won't tell you how to work your games.

[SAump]

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

Good one. but no they are legal. They were made that way, and the "paint" is done by them etc. Good to go. oh and if you want ill leave it up to you to throw them out

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

SA,

I think you have allowed too much LSD to get into your drinking water.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAump

I tell you HOCKEY is destroying our game by introducing those HSM. Tell Wilson Sporting Goods that their LL batting helmets used in this years LLWS were illegal. The shiny metallic multi-colored finish isn't SAFE. Helmets must be painted completely in one uniform color with a dull finish, preferably red or navy. Also those air holes in the rim of the helmet allow sunlight into the batter's eyes. This could costs someone to lose track of the pitch. One young man was hit on the chin by a pitch while wearing one of those helmets. Those helmets are dangerous and should be tossed immediately. I saw it on TV during the LLWS.

i agree.

Rising fastballs should be banned at the youth level too; they're equally dangerous.

[BigUmp56]

Well, he doesn't speak for all umpires working LL, I can tell you that. I don't know of any of the umpires in the LL association I belong to that would subscribe to his ideaology. If a situation were to arise where a question about a players eligbility needed to be addressed the most we would do is advise them of the appropriate rule. I'm not checking birth certificates any more than I would do a freaking cup check.



Tim.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

In a regular season Minor League game:

Coach Tim: I'm starting Johnny at Pitcher.
Coach Alan: He's a 12 year old, isn't he?
Coach Tim: Yes. So?
Coach Alan: Chris, you know a 12-year old can't pitch in a Minor League game.
Umpire Chris: Well, player eligibility isn't my problem. Let's find a district adminstrator or something.
Coach Tim: There aren't any around. I'm pitching Johnny.
Coach Alan: Well, I'm playing the game under protest.

You've got a protested game, and the protest will be upheld, because Chris couldn't be bothered to even know a black-letter rule in the book. (Technically, the ineligible pitcher will cause the game to be forfeited. Of course, LL umpires are charged with avoiding forfeiture situations.)

Something like this happened in our district at the Juniors level a few years back. There was real confusion about the rules, so the umpire really couldn't have known them, and it became a real train wreck. Given the circumstances, I couldn't fault the umpire, but I was glad that he was willing to learn the rules to prevent a recurrance.

Rich, I have a lot of respect for you postings here. Heck, I have some respect for Tim C's posts. In any case, I won't tell you how to work your games.

This conversation wouldn't even happen. The coach would protest the game and we'd start the game. Protests over player eligibility are NEVER the umpire's responsibility.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Well, he doesn't speak for all umpires working LL, I can tell you that. I don't know of any of the umpires in the LL association I belong to that would subscribe to his ideaology. If a situation were to arise where a question about a players eligbility needed to be addressed the most we would do is advise them of the appropriate rule. I'm not checking birth certificates any more than I would do a freaking cup check.

Tim.

We almost agree. I think the Little League umpire should advise the manager of the appropriate rule; you admit that an umpire might do so.

I explicitely don't think that umpires should be checking birth certificates or cups.

And, of course, I don't speak for anybody but myself, though I'm relaying rules and responsibilities straight from the Little League book.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

We almost agree. I think the Little League umpire should advise the manager of the appropriate rule; you admit that an umpire might do so.

I explicitely don't think that umpires should be checking birth certificates or cups.

And, of course, I don't speak for anybody but myself, though I'm relaying rules and responsibilities straight from the Little League book.

Good Lord, you can't read.

What you said: "I think the Little League umpire should advise the manager of the appropriate rule; you admit that an umpire might do so."

What BU really said: "If a situation were to arise where a question about a players eligbility needed to be addressed the most we woulddo is advise them of the appropriate rule."

You have done the impossible. You got me to defend BU.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Good Lord, you can't read.

What you said: "I think the Little League umpire should advise the manager of the appropriate rule; you admit that an umpire might do so."

What BU really said: "If a situation were to arise where a question about a players eligbility needed to be addressed the most we woulddo is advise them of the appropriate rule."

You have done the impossible. You got me to defend BU.

Sorry for the public message, but you seem to have PM turned off.

Given a situation where a protest is imminent, the facts are not in dispute, and it's about player eligibility, I think the umpire has three choices:

1. He should feel required to know the rules and communicate them before the offending play happens (LL)
2. If he knows the rules, the most he would do is communicate them before the offending play happens (BU)
3. He shouldn't know the rules, and he certainly shouldn't communicate them. (RF)

In my judgement, positions 1 and 2 are almost in agreement, at least when compared with 3. That is all I was saying.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Sorry for the public message, but you seem to have PM turned off.

Given a situation where a protest is imminent, the facts are not in dispute, and it's about player eligibility, I think the umpire has three choices:

1. He should feel required to know the rules and communicate them before the offending play happens (LL)
2. If he knows the rules, the most he would do is communicate them before the offending play happens (BU)
3. He shouldn't know the rules, and he certainly shouldn't communicate them. (RF)

In my judgement, positions 1 and 2 are almost in agreement, at least when compared with 3. That is all I was saying.

Okay, I stand corrected. It's not your reading skill that's impaired. It's your reading comprehension skills that's impaired. BU did not state #2 as you claim. At least is his post above, nowhere does he say "IF" the umpire knows the rule. All he says is that they (umpires in his association) would advise of the rule.

Unless you are running for opffice, it's always better form to not change the statement you are debating.

[BigUmp56]

Thank you, Garth. Let me give you an example of how a potentially protestable situation should be handled by an umpire.

Coach of team A decides to enter Little Snot Nosed Billy in the top of the third inning. He brings the changes to the umpire who in turn gives the change to the coach of team B. B-coach looks at the name of the substitute and informs the umpire-in-cheif that the sub is ineligible because he was ejected in their last game and now has to serve a one game suspension. Now, the umpires duty is to go to coach A and inform him that the other team feels the sub in ineligible, explaining why, and that's it. The umpire isn't going to look for an ejection report or look over the book from team A's last game. He's not going to get involved beyond letting them know the player is potentially ineligible. If the coach of team A feels his player is eligible and goes ahead and enters him, the other coach needs to lodge a protest in the book, and we get the game going.

This is from the LLRIM.

Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offender should be notified immediately.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Well, he doesn't speak for all umpires working LL, I can tell you that. I don't know of any of the umpires in the LL association I belong to that would subscribe to his ideaology.

Am I the only one here that knows that LilLeaguer is a woman?

[briancurtin]

thats news to me