Base on Balls - Where does Free Pass end?

[CMorvant]

Topic of discussion with fellow umpires. When a batter receives a base on balls, where does his free pass end? In Dixie Youth league it states a walk will be treated as a base hit. This would mean that the batter can run through the base or overrun the base will no putout being made if he was tagged after touching the base. (This of course would assume he did not round the base & make an attempt on to 2B).

Some thought that batter was only allowed free pass to first base. Therefore any action beyond the touch of the base would allow him be tagged out (including running through the base).

Any thoughts or reference to any rule is appreciated.

CMorvant

[Lab4man]

Ball four, catcher mis-handles the ball and the batter takes off like a scalded jack rabbit thinking he might get two bases. Near first base the coach has up the stop sign....catcher is quick like a cat...retreived the ball like a lab and is ready to gun him down if he tries anything funny.

Does the runner have to stop on a dime at first base?

[tibear]

The runner has the right to overrun first regardless of the manner in which he obtains the base. As long as he makes no effort towards second, he is free to return to first without liability of being tagged out.

[Tim C]

Almost correct, grasshopper.

In most rules codes the runner can, indeed, overrun in this situation --

However --

National Federation of High Schools's rules have a different view.

Play:

None on and none out.

Batter has a count of 3-2 . . .

Next pitch is a "checked/unchecked swing" situation with the ball in the dirt.

Ball rolls away from F2 as batter-runner takes off for first.

Catcher quickly fires to F3 but the throw arrives late as batter-runner sprints through the base into short right field making NO ATTEMPT at advancing.

F3 (for some unknown reason) tags batter-runner before he can return to the base.

Catcher now appeals to the PU to ask for help on the "checked/unchecked swing" situation.

At FEDlandia level we are now faced with the following:

IF the BU rules "Yes, he went!" (which would be kinda like calling him "out") he is now safe at first as he beat the throw.

IF the BU rules "No, he did not go!" (which would be kinda like calling him "safe") he is now out at first because FED DOES NOT ALLOW an overrun on ball four.

Kind of wierd but has been documented numerous time on this and other umpire websites.

Regards,

[ctblu40]

Tim-

I agree with your rulings on the previous post.

Does anybody know the logic that the NFHS rules committee is using behind this particular code? Do they do these things just to be different?

[CMorvant]

Thanks for the replies. TimC, do you know where FED references 'you can not overrun on ball four'. I can't seem to find that in either the rule book or case book.

[pdxblue]

The PU BETTER have been checking that check swing LONG before there is a play at first base!!! With 2 strikes, they don't even need to ask me to "ask for help", I am asking for it all on my own, and precisely for the above stated reason by Tim.

[tibear]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the various baseball organization could get together and have ONE set of rules.

Being in Canada we tend not to have the various organizations having different rules. One exception this year, the Midget 'AA' level ball (14-15 medium level) has a clause that allows a player to pitch twice in the same game as long as he isn't taken out of the lineup.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by CMorvant

Thanks for the replies. TimC, do you know where FED references 'you can not overrun on ball four'. I can't seem to find that in either the rule book or case book.

FED 8-2-7 reads:

ART. 7 ... A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or
overslides may immediately return without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. A player who is awarded first base on a base on balls does not have this right.

Another poster asked for the logic to this. The FED is not known for its logic. That is the way they want the rule stated and enforced.

In OBR & NCAA, it's okay (as Tim C. stated) for B1 to run through 1st base.

[RPatrino]

Guys, also be sure to add, "returns immediately" to the equation ( except in FED). So, a BR after ball 4 can over-run first in any direction provided he/she returns immediately to the base and does not (in your judgement) make an attempt to advance to 2nd.

As for the FED's logic, who knows. Perhaps it is a thinly disguised 'speed-up' rule??

[Dave Hensley]

Prior to the publication of the MLB Umpires Manual in, I think, 2002, the only "known" ruling on this issue was Jim Evans' ruling in his Baseball Rules Annotated, which actually was the same as the FED ruling - runner receiving base on balls cannot overrun 1B with immunity. The MLB Umpire Manual, however, contains a statement that endorses the overrun. NCAA allows the overrun, so now FED is the only major rules code that is "out of sorts" with the majority.

[DG]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Does anybody know the logic that the NFHS rules committee is using behind this particular code? Do they do these things just to be different?

"NFHS rules" and "logic" don't belong in the same sentence.