Do you count the run?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

if the wild pitch happened on ball three and the runner from third scored then the run would of counted? is this correct?

Trick question, right? That's NOT correct. The run would HAVE counted.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Trick question, right? That's NOT correct. The run would HAVE counted.

what are you talking about? thats what i said.

[orioles35]

The run should count, UNLESS it is as a result of an action by the improper batter. For instance, if the improper batter singled, the run wouldn't count since that single by the improper batter caused the run to score.

[BigUmp56]

It doesn't have to be an action by the batter. This had to be ball four before it became a passed ball, so any advance or run would be nullified.

6.07(b)When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

NOTE: If a runner advances, while the improper batter is at bat, on a stolen base, illegal pitch, balk, wild pitch or passed ball, such advance is legal.


Tim.

[RPatrino]

Tim:

Does item (2) here refer to advances or scores due to runner's being FORCED to advance due to actions by the improper batter?

Bob P.

[BigUmp56]

I don't think so, Bob. It comes down to a matter of judgment. You would have to ask yourself whether or not the advance of R3 was on the passed ball or the base on balls award. I would be hard pressed to assume either and return R3 regardless. The logic being that the base award preceeded the passed ball.


Here's what the J/R says.

J/R

Any runner who advanced because of the improper batters batted ball or award must return to his TOP base. A runner who advanced for some other reason (wild pick-off throw, overthrow, wild pitch, balk) is allowed his advance.


Tim.

[RPatrino]

Tim,

Thanks for the J/R reference. I would lean toward NOT allowing the run.

Bob P.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I don't think so, Bob. It comes down to a matter of judgment. You would have to ask yourself whether or not the advance of R3 was on the passed ball or the base on balls award. I would be hard pressed to assume either and return R3 regardless. The logic being that the base award preceeded the passed ball.


Here's what the J/R says.

J/R

Any runner who advanced because of the improper batters batted ball or award must return to his TOP base. A runner who advanced for some other reason (wild pick-off throw, overthrow, wild pitch, balk) is allowed his advance.


Tim.

So, did R3 advance *BECAUSE* of the walk or *FOR SOME OTHER REASON* (that, coincidentally was *during* / also resulted in the walk)?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

This would be for a bases loaded situation, hence the words force to advance.

In the words of Tee, why do ya'll make it so hard.

First, there is no mention of 'forced to advance' in either the rule itself or the authoritative resources.

Second, I guess we like to make it so 'hard' because we, unlike you, don't like to guess at what a rule means. In this thread you see some pretty darn smart men having an intelligent discussion on this topic. If you feel this applies only to a force play, please provide an approved ruling or caseplay to support your position. The MLBUM further demonstrates that no run can score here.

MLBUM

In addition to the preceding approved rulings regarding appeal plays, the examples and plays found in the Casebook Comments to Official Baseball Rule 4.09 also pertain to appeal plays. In particular, plays found in that section of the Official Baseball Rules demonstrate the following three concepts:

(1) No run shall score during a play in which the third out is made by the batter-runner before he touches first base.

(2) No run shall score during a play in which the third out is a force out.

(3) Following runners are not affected by an act of a preceding runner unless two are out.


Then again, you might be thinking of this MLBUM ruling.

MLBUM


5.14 RUNNER FORCED HOME ALLOWED TO SCORE AFTER THIRD OUT
A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score. (See Casebook Comments to Official Baseball Rule 7.04(b).


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

what are you talking about? thats what i said.

Read it again. You said the run "would *OF* counted."

mbyron points out that "would *HAVE* counted" is proper.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

what are you talking about? thats what i said.

I don't care who you are, that's funny ! LMFAO !