Some rules questions

[hags7]

2 questions on tough rules:

1. Are the hands "part of the bat" when a batter is hit by a pitch? I haven't been able to find it in the rulebook.

2. What is the proper procedure for an appeal to a base? Is it required that the pitched step back on the rubber then step off to appeal, or can they just go straight to the appeal?

Thanks.

[briancurtin]

1. hands arent part of the bat, they are a part of your body

2. this depends on what rule book you are playing under.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

These questions seem to pop up like spring flowers. If the rain would ever end, I may be able to enjoy them.

Oh well...

1) The hands are not part of the bat. If they were you would be able to buy them at your local sports supply store. The hands are connected to the batter's body and we know that if a ball strikes the person or unifrm/protective gear of the batter, he is awarded a base (provided he did not swing at the pitch or intentionally sought to be struck.

2) Brian mentioned that it depends on the league rules and that is correct. The umpire need only worry about which rules govern that game (Little League, Official Rules of Baseball, NCAA, NFHS, Babe Ruth, Dixie, etc.).
We need more information in order to give you a definitive response.

Hang in there...the rules are complex but it doesn't take long to separate fact from fiction. Good luck and let us know.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by hags7

2 questions on tough rules:

1. Are the hands "part of the bat" when a batter is hit by a pitch? I haven't been able to find it in the rulebook.

2. What is the proper procedure for an appeal to a base? Is it required that the pitched step back on the rubber then step off to appeal, or can they just go straight to the appeal?

Thanks.

1. This is not a "tough rule", this is a silly myth.

2. Under all codes, if the ball is live, the pitcher does not have to take the rubber and step off. The codes differ as to what can/has to be done under dead ball situations.

[UmpJM]

hags7,

Here are the relevant rules from OBR on the "hands part of the bat" question:

Rule 2.0

A BALL is a pitch which does not enter the strike zone in flight and is not struck at by the batter. If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone it is a "ball." If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05 (c) and 6.09 (b). If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight.

IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object other than a fielder.

The PERSON of a player or an umpire is any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.

A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which_
(a) Is struck at by the batter and is missed;
(b) Is not struck at, if any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone;
(c) Is fouled by the batter when he has less than two strikes;
(d) Is bunted foul;
(e) Touches the batter as he strikes at it;
(f) Touches the batter in flight in the strike zone; or
(g) Becomes a foul tip.

TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.

Rule 5.09
The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when_ (a) A pitched ball touches a batter, or his clothing, while in his legal batting position; runners, if forced, advance;

Rule 6.05
A batter is out when_ ... (f) He attempts to hit a third strike and the ball touches him;

Rule 6.08
The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when_ ... (b) He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball; If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched. APPROVED RULING: When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle him to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance.

OBR stands for Official Baseball Rules, which are the rules which govern play for Professional baseball and are the "foundation rules" for most youth baseball, including Little League, Pony, USSSA, etc. High School (aka FED) and College (aka NCAA) have their own rule codes which differ in some respects, but in none of them are the hands considered part of the bat.

If you're playing Cricket, on the other hand, it would be different:

3. Hand or glove to count as part of bat
In these Laws,
(a) reference to the bat shall imply that the bat is held by the batsman.

(b) contact between the ball and
either (i) the striker's bat itself
or (ii) the striker's hand holding the bat
or (iii) any part of a glove worn on the striker's hand holding the bat
shall be regarded as the ball striking or touching the bat, or being struck by the bat.


That's why I don't like the explanation that goes along the lines of....take hold of the bat, drop it...now where are the hands?

It's really just a choice of the rulesmakers as to whether, within the context of the game, they are considered part of the bat. In baseball, they are not. In cricket, they are.

In terms of appeals (assuming you are referring to an appeal by the defense of a baserunning infraction by the offense - rather than a checked swing appeal, a batting out of order appeal, or an appeal to an umpire to correct his misapplication of a rule), the basics are that:

1. The ball must be "in play".
2. The defense must make it "unmistakeable" to the umpire what runner and what infraction they are appealing.
3. They must tag either the base where the infraction incurred or the runner who committed the infraction.
4. They must do so before the first pitch or play after the continuous action of the play during which the infraction occurred has ended.

Except under High School (aka FED) rules - FED allows "verbal appeals" (i.e. no tag required) and allows them to be made while the ball is dead.

The business with the pitcher and the rubber is typically about making the ball "live" and in play. If the ball became dead during the continuous action of the play in which the baserunning infraction occurred, the defense must subsequently meet the requirements for making the ball "live" again prior to appealing (except in FED). The rules say that the pitcher must have the ball and be in contact with the rubber before a "dead" ball is made "live" again by the umpire. Once the ball is made live, the pitcher may throw from the rubber or step off prior to throwing as his inclination (and the game situation) dictates.

JM

[DG]

Originally Posted by hags7

2 questions on tough rules:

1. Are the hands "part of the bat" when a batter is hit by a pitch? I haven't been able to find it in the rulebook.

2. What is the proper procedure for an appeal to a base? Is it required that the pitched step back on the rubber then step off to appeal, or can they just go straight to the appeal?

Thanks.

Number 1 has already been answered.

Number 2 has two answers:

For games played under FED rules the players can make a live ball appeal by stating intention and throwing the ball to the base. Or, any player, or the coach can make a dead ball verbal appeal. Most of the smart coaches have figured this out so when they want to appeal they ask for a time out, and then verbally appeal. The granting of time out makes the ball dead, and no runners can advance and no throws are necessary.

For games played under OBR rules the ball must be live to make an appeal so the purpose of going to the mound to toe the rubber is only after the ball has become dead for some reason. The batter gets in the box, the catcher his box, the pitcher steps to the rubber, the umpire says "Play" and then, the pitcher can step back off the rubber legally and make the appeal by stating intention and throwing the ball to the base.

If the ball is still LIVE there is no reason to go the mound to make an appeal in FED or OBR. Just state your intention and throw the ball to the base. Or you can tag the runner who missed the base. When stating intentions you must identify the correct runner, and the correct base, you can't just say "I'm appealing the runner who missed 2B" if there was more than one runner who could have. If the umpire saw a miss he knows which runner missed the base, and you must correctly identify.

[Tim C]

"Are the hands bat of the bat . . ."

How can anyone consider this a difficult call.

Lah me.

The "ill advised" are trying to gain control . . . yet again.

It is obviously LL season . . .

Regards,

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Tim C

It is obviously LL season . . .

Regards,

PONY, Dixie, Babe Ruth, Cal Ripken, USSSA, AAU,................

I doubt this question is unique to LL people, Tee.


Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

PONY, Dixie, Babe Ruth, Cal Ripken, USSSA, AAU,................

I doubt this question is unique to LL people, Tee.


Tim.

The price LL pays for a good PR department. LL has become a generic term, much like Kleenex and Xerox.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

The price LL pays for a good PR department. LL has become a generic term, much like Kleenex and Xerox.

And that is unfortunate, since organizations like PONY play a brand of baseball much closer in nature to pro ball than does Little League Baseball, which has more special rules than even FED and NCAA combined.

I use tissues and make photocopies.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by hags7

2 questions on tough rules:

1. Are the hands "part of the bat" when a batter is hit by a pitch? I haven't been able to find it in the rulebook.

1. When you bought the bat, were the hands included?

2. Hold the bat at arm's length. Let go of the bat. After the bat settles on the ground, do you see any hands attached to it?

If the answer to questions 1 & 2 is no, then the hands are not part of the bat.

Please feel free to use these two examples for any arguments about this subject.

Originally Posted by hags7

2. What is the proper procedure for an appeal to a base? Is it required that the pitched step back on the rubber then step off to appeal, or can they just go straight to the appeal?

If the ball is still "live" then the defense can go straight to appeal. If the ball became "dead" for any reason, then the ball must be made "live" first. F1 must then proceed to throw to the proper base or step off and throw. Under FED, the appeal can be made with the ball dead.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

1. When you bought the bat, were the hands included?

2. Hold the bat at arm's length. Let go of the bat. After the bat settles on the ground, do you see any hands attached to it?

If the answer to questions 1 & 2 is no, then the hands are not part of the bat.

Please feel free to use these two examples for any arguments about this subject.

Oz, as someone has pointed out here before, it's not always a matter of logic. Players aren't born with uniforms on either, but the "uniform is part of the player" for purposes of HBP. So why couldn't the hands be part of the bat?

Like so much of our beloved game, it's a matter of definition and custom rather than strict logic. And by definition (in baseball, not cricket), the hands are not part of the bat.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Oz, as someone has pointed out here before, it's not always a matter of logic. Players aren't born with uniforms on either, but the "uniform is part of the player" for purposes of HBP. So why couldn't the hands be part of the bat?

Following this logic to its illogical conclusion, when you drop the bat, the uniform stays on, so the uniform must be part of the player.