Two rules questions

RazorRef · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:09pm

1. Can a punter punt the ball twice? I.E. - Punter's kick is blocked at the LOS and rolls back to the punter who kicks the ball again. I would think this is legal, but wanted to throw it at you guys to make sure.

2. How to penalize...
Quarterback is in his EZ when he throws the ball to the 30 where it is intercepted. The quarterback is drilled away from the play after the change of possession, but during the play and so the WH throws a flag for USC. The interceptor runs for a touchdown.

Our crew, which I was the youngest member of, took 15 yards from the end of the run, and so gave the ball to B at the 15 yard line?? Could be right, but I thought all live ball USC's are treated as dead-ball fouls and so this penalty should've been assessed at the succeeding spot?

Thanks!

Jim S · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:18pm

The nswer to your first ? is yes. Team A(K) may kick the ball from behind the LOS any time before a change of possession.

The answer to your second question was, they got it right, but I think you got the wrong foul. This is a contact foul and is not a USL. It was a personal foul, a live ball foul.
The enforcement spot would be the end of the run, the goalline. 1st & 10 from the 15. Just as they did.

RazorRef · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:28pm

Great, thanks!

Bill D · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 12:47pm

Where was the QB when he was drilled? If he was in the endzone, then penalize from the goal line(end of run), 15 yards. If he was in the field of play, penalize from the spot of the foul.

MI Official · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 01:17pm

the first one, I agree is legal.... but isn't a PF/USC.. on the play in the 2nd example penalized from the succeeding spot...ie try from the 18???? TD stands???

Bill D · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 01:24pm

Be careful with your terminology. By definintion, USC is a non contact foul. The "drilling of the QB" may have been an "unsportsmanlike" thing to do, but it is not USC, it is a personal foul, and as a live ball foul is administered under all but one principle.

bjudge · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 01:51pm

The touchdown should stand in #2 for USC. The ball should be placed on the 18 for the try.

On a personal foul, is enforced as a live ball foul from the spot of the foul, and the touchdown is nullified.

[Edited by bjudge on Oct 18th, 2004 at 03:04 PM]

Bill D · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 02:00pm

Bjudge:

Why? This was described as a live ball personal foul. The point is if there is contact, you can't have USC and you can't have succeeding spot enforcement.

bjudge · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill D
Bjudge:

Why? This was described as a live ball personal foul. The point is if there is contact, you can't have USC and you can't have succeeding spot enforcement.

I corrected my error.

RazorRef · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 02:35pm

Bill D -

Thanks for your reply, but I think you may have mistated when you said if the QB was in the field of play, it would have been a spot foul. It still would've been from the end of the run, yes? In my game, the QB was in the endzone when the foul occured. Thanks to all who responded. I'm now clear on the difference between personal foul and unsportsmanlike fouls. The white hat in my game mistakingly used "unsportsmanlike" when I'm sure he meant personal foul. Also, I guess the only signal that should be used by the ref is the chop to the arm.

Thanks again guys.

Bill D · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 02:53pm

Razor ref:

The purpose of my question -- where was the QB when he was "drilled"? -- was to demonstrate that the foul could be behind the end of the run and since it was by the offense (B after the change of possession), it could be administered from the spot of the foul. The end of the run is the goal line. If the foul was in the field of play, then it is behind the basic spot (goal line)and the penalty would be administered from the spot of the foul. I agree in your example if the foul was in the end zone, it would be administered from the basic spot, the goal line.

RazorRef · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 02:56pm

ohhhh! That makes sense. They are now A, and therefore are subject to the all-but-one princ. Sorry for my error, thanks.

Bill D · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 03:54pm

Razor ref:

Please don't think I am nit picking but once again be careful of terminology. The terms A,B,K and R do not change during the down. Rule 2-42-3. After the interception, B is now the offense (the team in possession of the ball) and being the offense is what makes the foul of hitting the QB possibly be a spot foul.

Snake~eyes · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 04:16pm

Also both A and B would be subject to the all but one principle.

JugglingReferee · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 12:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by RazorRef
1. Can a punter punt the ball twice? I.E. - Punter's kick is blocked at the LOS and rolls back to the punter who kicks the ball again. I would think this is legal, but wanted to throw it at you guys to make sure.

2. How to penalize...
Quarterback is in his EZ when he throws the ball to the 30 where it is intercepted. The quarterback is drilled away from the play after the change of possession, but during the play and so the WH throws a flag for USC. The interceptor runs for a touchdown.

Our crew, which I was the youngest member of, took 15 yards from the end of the run, and so gave the ball to B at the 15 yard line?? Could be right, but I thought all live ball USC's are treated as dead-ball fouls and so this penalty should've been assessed at the succeeding spot?

Thanks!

1. Yes, the punter may punt the ball more than once during the same scrimmage play. Keep in mind that these are Canadian rules. A player with the ball may also drop kick the ball at anytime, for a field goal. Yes, that's right. Seeing that he will not make the EZ becuase of 3 closing defenders, he may drop the ball and kick it as it rebounds from the ground. If it goes through the uprights, count 3 points.

2. It is UR on the passer only if the contact is immediately after the pass and the offender did not touch the ball. So, judgement is required here. If the R deems it UP/Passer, penalize 15+AFD. Otherwise, penalize 15 from PBH or PBD at A's option.