Bad Form, MiLB umpires should have more Class

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

When the AMLU instructed the membership not to accept Spring Training assignments, they abandoned their right to argue further.

In the other thread, I and others have told you - you don't need a contract to work! For some reason, 220 of you feel compelled to demand one. Long ago, we signed individual contracts within the BUD program. We did this because we wanted the job and chance to prove that we deserved the opportunity to move up. Yes, we agreed to bad pay, conditions and benefits - we did so because we understood our place in the game.

Even your leadership recently commented that the members are doing okay because they have other jobs to pay the bills. Maybe it is just me, but if Andy and the gang want to push the idea that thus really IS a career, they might want to rethink that strategy. PBUC knows that they have a Royal Flush and the union is bluffing. The umpiring is not bad enough to warrant an uprising. According to MiLB, six ejections were handed out in all of AA and AAA in the past two weeks. That is four less than last year at the same time.

The leagues, teams and skippers have been admonished and told to behave themselves. The best NCAA umpires will wrap up their seasons long before the playoffs begin and become available. Then the naysayers will have to watch the guys who already earned a nice paycheck take the plums.

I can't believe the photos on the AMLU site either. They crossed a line by publishing them and veiling threats. I hope they have a good understanding of the way the game of politics is played. They may consider themselves on the way up now, but some day (maybe sooner than they expect) they will be just like everyone else. It looked cold in some of those photos of the picket line. That's a shame...they may be out there longer than the know.

The more you post, the more it becomes apparent that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are simply speaking from emotion and ill will towards the AMLU umpires.

The whole point of creating the union, the whole point of going on strike, is to improve conditions for Minor League Umpires. You seem to think that because conditions are bad when they started, the AMLU umpires should just expect and deal with things being bad forever. There is no chance of the union being broken, the level of umpiring brought by the Scab umpires IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ANYONE IN MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Not the players, coaches, managers, GM's, Farm Directors, nobody! There are "gag" orders and instructions to not argue in effect across the board for that very reason. If everything were really OK, Minor League Baseball wouldn't have to handcuff the clubs that way. Only you and Fitz would really believe that a lower number of ejections directly equals better umpiring. The opposite is actually true in this case. The players and managers have commented to the fact that they are "getting away with" far more nonsense than usual.

PBUC simply does not have the means, long term, to staff the Minor League fields without the AMLU 220. Contrary to what Minor League Baseball has attempted to convey in the press, it has not been easy for many leagues to line up umpires at all, not to mention the lack of competency across the board with Scab umpires. Do you really not understand the basic business principals at work here? A union strike is exactly what is happening now. What makes you think this isn't what the AMLU intended? How is it that you see the AMLU as in a lesser bargaining position now than before the season started? As far as your statement about going to work without a contract...? You must not understand the basics here. The point of a union is to collectively bargain, not individually act. It is each individual putting the whole before himself to reap the benefits of what can be accomplished together that is so much greater than what can be accomplished individually. What happens when a scab gets a concussion? Breaks an ankle? PBUC does not (and will never) provide them even the meager benefits given the AMLU under the previous contract.

How long do you think the novelty of "I'm working pro baseball" will last before the reality of "I'm in over my head, and with nothing to show for it" kicks in? Those that are going to scab are doing it, and not necessarily to the detriment of the AMLU. If you wish to cross, do it, but your attempts at justifying why its OK to do so are misinformed and illogical. Bottom line, every man makes a decision, but what do you really stand to gain by getting in the middle of a fight that isn't yours? You can't say money. You can't say prestige or glory; you would be a scab, regardless of how you try to spin it. It boils down to stabbing another guy in the back because you want to prove you are just as good as he is. Fine. ALL UMPIRES ARE EXACTLY EQUAL. Does that remove the feeling of "I'm gonna show them!" ? What if you were just as good as any professional umpire? So what? You still just jumped in the middle of something that didn't involve you and stabbed another man in the back for having done it. No scab deserves to be on those fields. They didn't earn those positions. That is the disgusting part of the whole thing. The Scabs are making fools of themselves and acting important while doing it. Minor League Baseball didn't call any of them last season. There is a reason for that. You should be ashamed at the possibility of your words influencing another to act so foolishly.

[MrB]

Jiggy,

Has anyone seen the gag order in writing? Or has it been confirmed by any of the AMLU memebers since on of the AMLU board members recently wrote that he asked players and managers about it at a recent game and every one said that it didn't really exisit. That nothing more than "be paitient" with these guys was said. Does the AMLU have hard data to support the triple fines rumor? I am just curious.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by MrB

Jiggy,

Has anyone seen the gag order in writing? Or has it been confirmed by any of the AMLU members since on of the AMLU board members recently wrote that he asked players and managers about it at a recent game and every one said that it didn't really exist. That nothing more than "be patient" with these guys was said. Does the AMLU have hard data to support the triple fines rumor? I am just curious.

It has been confirmed by numerous players, managers, and club personnel (management), but in casual conversation and not "on the record" because they don't want to cause trouble for themselves. I know that sounds convenient, but the same stories have come from numerous sources and some that I personally trust. As a general rule such a thing would not be in open circulation in writing as it paints MiLB in a bad light. I think the message may have been communicated in slightly different ways from league to league, but overall it is the same general message: "Don't get into arguments on the field, and don't comment on the umpires off of it." There are also numerous news articles which document the players and managers hesitation to comment on the situation.

[mbyron]

The gag order seems to apply as well to the club media (such as radio broadcasts), since some bizarre things have gone completely without comment.

[kraine27]

If a "Scab" umpire didn't earn his job, then how is it that once a AMLU guy is not asked back another year, that he "Earns" his position in College Level games?

I find this really interesting, especially since, in my area, we have a AA guy who is taking all kinds of NAIA and Div II NCAA games and making mistakes all over the place. Not only does he have questionable judgement, he also misapplies rules. To boot, he is an instructor at a pro school!

I personally know Div I college guys who are much better umpires than he is and as soon as he is not asked back to minor league ball, the college guys will be out of a job. Did the AMLU guy earn his position?

Now then, let me state for the record that I have not attended umpire school, nor do I desire to attend. I currently call the JUCO, NAIA and DivII NCAA level on a consistant basis and am very happy to be where I am. With this in mind, is it not me that should be more upset about the AMLU guys takign my games? I can guarantee you I have earned my position.

[Kaliix]

WWTB stated "By the way, how come the AMLU guys are calling the recent pro school graduates 'scabs'?"

I believe the term recent to subjective and could mean any pro-school grads from 2005 or 2004. You might be able to stretch it to 2003 depending on how one defines recent.

A couple of questions:
1) How can you guys (you being AMLU members) be on strike? You don't have a contract. Therefore, you don't have a job. You were offered a contract and refused it. It seems to me like you guys quit...

2) If you don't have a contract, refused the last contract you were offered, and essentially quit, how are the umpires who are filling the positions you left open scabs?

Originally Posted by JIGGY

The more you post, the more it becomes apparent that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are simply speaking from emotion and ill will towards the AMLU umpires.

The whole point of creating the union, the whole point of going on strike, is to improve conditions for Minor League Umpires. You seem to think that because conditions are bad when they started, the AMLU umpires should just expect and deal with things being bad forever. There is no chance of the union being broken, the level of umpiring brought by the Scab umpires IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ANYONE IN MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Not the players, coaches, managers, GM's, Farm Directors, nobody! There are "gag" orders and instructions to not argue in effect across the board for that very reason. If everything were really OK, Minor League Baseball wouldn't have to handcuff the clubs that way. Only you and Fitz would really believe that a lower number of ejections directly equals better umpiring. The opposite is actually true in this case. The players and managers have commented to the fact that they are "getting away with" far more nonsense than usual.

PBUC simply does not have the means, long term, to staff the Minor League fields without the AMLU 220. Contrary to what Minor League Baseball has attempted to convey in the press, it has not been easy for many leagues to line up umpires at all, not to mention the lack of competency across the board with Scab umpires. Do you really not understand the basic business principals at work here? A union strike is exactly what is happening now. What makes you think this isn't what the AMLU intended? How is it that you see the AMLU as in a lesser bargaining position now than before the season started? As far as your statement about going to work without a contract...? You must not understand the basics here. The point of a union is to collectively bargain, not individually act. It is each individual putting the whole before himself to reap the benefits of what can be accomplished together that is so much greater than what can be accomplished individually. What happens when a scab gets a concussion? Breaks an ankle? PBUC does not (and will never) provide them even the meager benefits given the AMLU under the previous contract.

How long do you think the novelty of "I'm working pro baseball" will last before the reality of "I'm in over my head, and with nothing to show for it" kicks in? Those that are going to scab are doing it, and not necessarily to the detriment of the AMLU. If you wish to cross, do it, but your attempts at justifying why its OK to do so are misinformed and illogical. Bottom line, every man makes a decision, but what do you really stand to gain by getting in the middle of a fight that isn't yours? You can't say money. You can't say prestige or glory; you would be a scab, regardless of how you try to spin it. It boils down to stabbing another guy in the back because you want to prove you are just as good as he is. Fine. ALL UMPIRES ARE EXACTLY EQUAL. Does that remove the feeling of "I'm gonna show them!" ? What if you were just as good as any professional umpire? So what? You still just jumped in the middle of something that didn't involve you and stabbed another man in the back for having done it. No scab deserves to be on those fields. They didn't earn those positions. That is the disgusting part of the whole thing. The Scabs are making fools of themselves and acting important while doing it. Minor League Baseball didn't call any of them last season. There is a reason for that. You should be ashamed at the possibility of your words influencing another to act so foolishly.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

WWTB stated "By the way, how come the AMLU guys are calling the recent pro school graduates 'scabs'?"

I believe the term recent to subjective and could mean any pro-school grads from 2005 or 2004. You might be able to stretch it to 2003 depending on how one defines recent.

A couple of questions:
1) How can you guys (you being AMLU members) be on strike? You don't have a contract. Therefore, you don't have a job. You were offered a contract and refused it. It seems to me like you guys quit...

2) If you don't have a contract, refused the last contract you were offered, and essentially quit, how are the umpires who are filling the positions you left open scabs?

This really isn't worth responding to. Nonetheless...

It is becoming more and more appear ant that most people don't understand the way collective bargaining as a union takes place. The whole point is that the union will choose to strike vs. work without an acceptable contract. This is, essentially the point of the union, as unions may strike and are afforded certain legal protections in doing so. Each AMLU umpire DID NOT "walk out" or "refuse" a job in the minor leagues. Umpires, like players are contracted, both as individuals and as a union. Without a working contract, they don't work. The jobs are still theirs (they haven't been locked out or fired) there simply isn't an agreement in place to allow them to work.

p.s. "stretching" the definition of recent to even 2003 doesn't change any of the facts in this situation.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by kraine27

If a "Scab" umpire didn't earn his job, then how is it that once a AMLU guy is not asked back another year, that he "Earns" his position in College Level games?

I find this really interesting, especially since, in my area, we have a AA guy who is taking all kinds of NAIA and Div II NCAA games and making mistakes all over the place. Not only does he have questionable judgement, he also misapplies rules. To boot, he is an instructor at a pro school!

I personally know Div I college guys who are much better umpires than he is and as soon as he is not asked back to minor league ball, the college guys will be out of a job. Did the AMLU guy earn his position?

Now then, let me state for the record that I have not attended umpire school, nor do I desire to attend. I currently call the JUCO, NAIA and DivII NCAA level on a consistant basis and am very happy to be where I am. With this in mind, is it not me that should be more upset about the AMLU guys takign my games? I can guarantee you I have earned my position.

Have you asked your assignor why he would chose a guy with professional experience and training over one who states "(I)...am very happy to be where I am." and "...I have not attended umpire school, nor do I desire to attend." ? What did you do to "earn" your college games that an ex- MiLB umpire hasn't?

[BigUmp56]

I just read that Dave Yeast has crossed the picket line in Indianapolis. WTF if that all about?


Tim.

[Kaliix]

Jiggy, AMLU was offered a contract. AMLU didn't like said contract so they didn't sign it and didn't go to work. All your union speak mumbo jumbo aside, you quit. Period. I might feel different if games hadn't started and other people weren't doing your jobs, but that ain't so. And if a new contract is signed, those replacements will be fired/let go/terminated and you will be rehired.

WWTB didn't say that no 2006 grads were working, he said recent. If there are 2005 or 2004 grads working then what he said is true. That most certainly does change the situation. From false to true.

Originally Posted by JIGGY

This really isn't worth responding to. Nonetheless...

It is becoming more and more appear ant that most people don't understand the way collective bargaining as a union takes place. The whole point is that the union will choose to strike vs. work without an acceptable contract. This is, essentially the point of the union, as unions may strike and are afforded certain legal protections in doing so. Each AMLU umpire DID NOT "walk out" or "refuse" a job in the minor leagues. Umpires, like players are contracted, both as individuals and as a union. Without a working contract, they don't work. The jobs are still theirs (they haven't been locked out or fired) there simply isn't an agreement in place to allow them to work.

p.s. "stretching" the definition of recent to even 2003 doesn't change any of the facts in this situation.

[MrB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I just read that Dave Yeast has crossed the picket line in Indianapolis. WTF if that all about?


Tim.

Tim,

Like everyone in this situation he probably did what he judged to be best for him. Right? Wrong? I don't know and can't judge, but he did and looks like he thought it was best for him.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I just read that Dave Yeast has crossed the picket line in Indianapolis. WTF if that all about?


Tim.

Whoa!

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Jiggy, AMLU was offered a contract. AMLU didn't like said contract so they didn't sign it and didn't go to work. All your union speak mumbo jumbo aside, you quit. Period. I might feel different if games hadn't started and other people weren't doing your jobs, but that ain't so. And if a new contract is signed, those replacements will be fired/let go/terminated and you will be rehired.

WWTB didn't say that no 2006 grads were working, he said recent. If there are 2005 or 2004 grads working then what he said is true. That most certainly does change the situation. From false to true.

WRONG AND WRONG. You don't get it.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I just read that Dave Yeast has crossed the picket line in Indianapolis. WTF if that all about?


Tim.

No better an illustration of what a scab really is. He stands nothing to gain (and in his case, alot to loose) but chooses to become a part of a situation that doesn't involve him, stabbing other men in the back by doing so. He has proven a man of no integrity and low character time and time again, this just puts an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

[Thatballzlow]

Yes, Mr. Yeast did work in Indianapolis, in fact, there is a photo on the AMLU website. He crossed the picket line in the MLB strike years ago, so it really shouldn't be a surprise that he did it here. I won't criticize him. He has experienced crossing before, so he knows what he's getting into. The bad part is he isn't a bad umpire at all, but he has no friends in professional baseball. Now, is he crying about that...probably not.

I've gotten mixed signals from my contacts in and out of pro ball in the past few days about college associations. The ECAC supervisor has told his guys that this may be their opportunity to get to the major leagues. The only fear I have in that rationale is that the guys who are in charge of supervising MLB umpires, i.e., the guys who hire you to work in MLB are all the old union guys from the Richie Phillips era...Richie Garcia, Frank Pulli, Palermo, Rieker...so tell me do you think this may be the shot at the big leagues? I've heard these guys talk in the past, and they're STILL loyal to Phillips, even though he cost them their jobs.

Thoughts?