Bad Form, MiLB umpires should have more Class

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Hey Jiggy, it's like this. You just got here and have no reputation. WWTB has been here for along time and IMHO has a reputation for giving accurate information about the game. (Pi$$ing contests with Rut excluded, I won't even go there). I'd be much more likely to believe him and very unlikely, considering your short stay here and the quality of your posts, to believe you at all. And I am betting I am not alone in that assessment.

If you are asking WWTB to prove his sources then do the same. You are not producing the information, so you can't be your own source. That kind of thinking truely is idiotic.

You are getting your "information" some where from some one. What's your source???

I bet you dimes for dollars you'll post some innane crap and still won't give a source....

Name a source and prove me wrong. Otherwise your just talking shi.....

You are inclined to believe someone based on how long they have been posting huh? That's perfectly logical...

And... I've said before. I am only speaking on those things I have seen first hand. I need not site a source because I am not repeating anything anyone else has said. WWTB can only claim to repeat what others who are in the game have said. The fact that he refuses to name his sources leads me to believe he is simply attempting to act as though he is something he isn't in front of an audience that by and large wouldn't be able to tell the difference. His post are purely emotional and clearly anti-AMLU vs. being objective and informed on the issue. He has shown only an intent to influence others to take a negative view of the AMLU and preach doom and gloom for the labor situation. This is a cowardly thing to do, especially considering his only basis for his commentary is his "sources" which he will not identify. The facts show that the players, managers, and other club personnel aren't completely happy with things. Their comments aren't just normal complaining about umpiring. They speak specifically to a comparison between what they are used to and what they are seeing now. There have been numerous situations that have occurred, that likely would not have occurred with the normal AMLU umpires. It simply cannot be argued that the Scabs are just as good of umpires, as PBUC and MiLB themselves have said otherwise. Sure the games are being played (in case there was a misunderstanding; the AMLU's intent by striking was not to keep the games from happening at all, just to keep the AMLU umpires from umpiring and demonstrate their necessity to the game). MiLB has put out across the board gag orders and no-argument directives; a move that shows their expectation of problems with what they admit is sub-par umpiring. This is part of the spin MiLB has attempted in this situation, admittedly they have managed the press better than has the AMLU. However, the AMLU recognized early (before the strike actually began) that in this case, public opinion would not play any significant part and that the added difficulty of finding, living with, and keeping Scabs would. Remaining objective and looking at only the facts, one cannot honestly believe the "doom and gloom" scenario WWTB and others would like to preach. It only serves to vent frustration from those who have jealousies against the AMLU guys, weather it be for where they are, or the fact that they choose to demand more and assert that they are worth it. Simple fact of the matter is, either way MiLB needs the 220 young men of the AMLU. Even if somehow they "broke" the union, the majority of those 220 would be selected to return to work. They are the best and most qualified to work in the minor leagues, the AMLU knows it, MiLB knows it, PBUC knows it, the players and managers also know it. The only ones denying it are those outside of the game, those that wish to believe that umpires in the amateur ranks are going to "get their shot." What a let down it will be when they realize they never were taken seriously, by either side; they were only Scabs.

This next week should prove important and interesting...stay tuned...

[Kaliix]

Well Jiggy, you proved me wrong, you didn't post some inane crap... it was actually a half way decent post.

But you still didn't post a source did you??? I called that one didn't I...

You also conveniently forgot the other part of my statement, the one about the quality of your posts being as much a part of my assessment of you. Nice try...

WWTB has posted on this board for a while on matters related to baseball umpiring and I have come to find that he is believable and his information, for the most part, to be pretty accurate. He has established that credibility over time.

You haven't established any credibilty, so yes, the fact that you just got here most certainly factors into whether or not I believe you.

WWTB is not anti-AMLU and is probably more objective than the majority of posters on this board. My personal feelings on this particular matter pretty much mirror what I have seen him post. It is obvious to me that you haven't read his writings on this matter by the way you are trying to characterize his position. Either that, or you are so pro-union that it blinds you to any discussion of whether this strike was a good idea or not.

Originally Posted by JIGGY

You are inclined to believe someone based on how long they have been posting huh? That's perfectly logical...

And... I've said before. I am only speaking on those things I have seen first hand. I need not site a source because I am not repeating anything anyone else has said. WWTB can only claim to repeat what others who are in the game have said. The fact that he refuses to name his sources leads me to believe he is simply attempting to act as though he is something he isn't in front of an audience that by and large wouldn't be able to tell the difference. His post are purely emotional and clearly anti-AMLU vs. being objective and informed on the issue. He has shown only an intent to influence others to take a negative view of the AMLU and preach doom and gloom for the labor situation. This is a cowardly thing to do, especially considering his only basis for his commentary is his "sources" which he will not identify. The facts show that the players, managers, and other club personnel aren't completely happy with things. Their comments aren't just normal complaining about umpiring. They speak specifically to a comparison between what they are used to and what they are seeing now. There have been numerous situations that have occurred, that likely would not have occurred with the normal AMLU umpires. It simply cannot be argued that the Scabs are just as good of umpires, as PBUC and MiLB themselves have said otherwise. Sure the games are being played (in case there was a misunderstanding; the AMLU's intent by striking was not to keep the games from happening at all, just to keep the AMLU umpires from umpiring and demonstrate their necessity to the game). MiLB has put out across the board gag orders and no-argument directives; a move that shows their expectation of problems with what they admit is sub-par umpiring. This is part of the spin MiLB has attempted in this situation, admittedly they have managed the press better than has the AMLU. However, the AMLU recognized early (before the strike actually began) that in this case, public opinion would not play any significant part and that the added difficulty of finding, living with, and keeping Scabs would. Remaining objective and looking at only the facts, one cannot honestly believe the "doom and gloom" scenario WWTB and others would like to preach. It only serves to vent frustration from those who have jealousies against the AMLU guys, weather it be for where they are, or the fact that they choose to demand more and assert that they are worth it. Simple fact of the matter is, either way MiLB needs the 220 young men of the AMLU. Even if somehow they "broke" the union, the majority of those 220 would be selected to return to work. They are the best and most qualified to work in the minor leagues, the AMLU knows it, MiLB knows it, PBUC knows it, the players and managers also know it. The only ones denying it are those outside of the game, those that wish to believe that umpires in the amateur ranks are going to "get their shot." What a let down it will be when they realize they never were taken seriously, by either side; they were only Scabs.

This next week should prove important and interesting...stay tuned...

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Well Jiggy, you proved me wrong, you didn't post some inane crap... it was actually a half way decent post.

But you still didn't post a source did you??? I called that one didn't I...

You also conveniently forgot the other part of my statement, the one about the quality of your posts being as much a part of my assessment of you. Nice try...

WWTB has posted on this board for a while on matters related to baseball umpiring and I have come to find that he is believable and his information, for the most part, to be pretty accurate. He has established that credibility over time.

You haven't established any credibilty, so yes, the fact that you just got here most certainly factors into whether or not I believe you.

WWTB is not anti-AMLU and is probably more objective than the majority of posters on this board. My personal feelings on this particular matter pretty much mirror what I have seen him post. It is obvious to me that you haven't read his writings on this matter by the way you are trying to characterize his position. Either that, or you are so pro-union that it blinds you to any discussion of whether this strike was a good idea or not.

Watch and listen this next week...I think things are going to progress towards resolution.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by MrB

Tim,

Like everyone in this situation he probably did what he judged to be best for him. Right? Wrong? I don't know and can't judge, but he did and looks like he thought it was best for him.

It's nice to see Dave has the time to skip his evals and observations of NCAA guys to work minor league ball. It would seem apparent to me that his services to the NCAA aren't all that important after all.

[Thatballzlow]

I'm not going to quote any sources, but I think something the AMLU should remember is simply put:

You do have the right to strike. MiLB has the right to replace you now. Since there is no longer any contract in place, striking is an option, but they can permanently replace all AMLU umpires with whomever they choose. If there isn't much more of an uproar than we've been hearing lately, they just might do that.

Remember, I'm not just saying this to hear myself think...I'm a former AMLU guy also. Just be careful what path Andy Roberts is taking you down.

thatballzlow

[MrB]

Well said.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by JIGGY

WWTB can only claim to repeat what others who are in the game have said. The fact that he refuses to name his sources leads me to believe he is simply attempting to act as though he is something he isn't in front of an audience that by and large wouldn't be able to tell the difference. His post are purely emotional and clearly anti-AMLU vs. being objective and informed on the issue.

You and OJ have an awful lot in common. After a while you both think that whatever you say must be the truth.

You claim that I won't reveal my sources (plural) while you have never once intimated where you glean your contrarian views. I have provided far more information about the sitaution, objectively and honestly, than you. You resort to petty name calling, ala the AMLU gang, while I try to knock down your mirrors and clear the smoke.

My posts are far from emotional - I have sided with the game over the interests of a few misguided souls. They knew what they were getting into and claim that they deserve more. I agreed with that but not their tactics. Back in October I proferred the idea that if they strike they would be replaced successfully. So far that has played out. I argued that they should disband the union, sign individual contracts for the year - reorganize and then bargain in good faith. Further, I encouraged them to not begin the terroristic tendencies that other unions have employed. The AMLU gang sent out mass emails and made many phone calls encouraging us to band together and not alienate each other. I guess they feel that the page of photos, names and threats is just fair play. Silly me, I thought they were professional. I have also stated (multiple times) that while I would not choose to work those games as a replacement, I find little fault with those who do. The game is bigger than the umpire.

I actually earned the right to offer my opinion on these subjects. I worked those games in those one stoplight towns, albeit a very long time ago. They have it much better than we ever did but you'll never acknowledge that. I wanted them to work those games and only jumped into this fray when a few unenlightened souls insisted that any umpire who works those games is doing it just to screw the ALMU guys. We now know differently...many need the extra revenue, want the challenge and are capable of making the calls. I'm sick of hearing how a blown call here and a bad strikezone there are novel. Those same *****es and moans were heard when the regular guys were out there. Lest we forget the World Baseball Classic, League Championship Series and World Series last year; those umpires were ridiculed for poor officiating and make a hell of a lot more than $50 a game.

Finally, don't pretend that you know more about the negotiation rumblings than you do. Almost every sports talk station has mentioned that the AMLU guys are backed into a corner and are offering new countersto PBUC. They have to, offers aren't coming from the other side. Once they concede enough and realize their folly, MiLB will probably take them back. Since 99% of them wash out anyway, when they return to earth and find that their new partner is one of the guys they called 'scab', it'll be fun to see that plays out. They also know that the D1 boys are ready, willing and able to step in and finish the AA and AAA seasons in another month. After working 3 man and seeing many thousands of pitches for a few months, they will have the luxury of familiarity. Don't kid yourself, those D1 crews can step in and not miss a beat.

Parting Shot: You really should go back and read the old threads before telling us what I think about the issue. My passion for almost every argument comes from dispelling bad information. If that is construed as being emotional, then I will happily accept that mantel. It's better than being a shill.

[JIGGY]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

You and OJ have an awful lot in common. After a while you both think that whatever you say must be the truth.

You claim that I won't reveal my sources (plural) while you have never once intimated where you glean your contrarian views. I have provided far more information about the sitaution, objectively and honestly, than you. You resort to petty name calling, ala the AMLU gang, while I try to knock down your mirrors and clear the smoke.

My posts are far from emotional - I have sided with the game over the interests of a few misguided souls. They knew what they were getting into and claim that they deserve more. I agreed with that but not their tactics. Back in October I proferred the idea that if they strike they would be replaced successfully. So far that has played out. I argued that they should disband the union, sign individual contracts for the year - reorganize and then bargain in good faith. Further, I encouraged them to not begin the terroristic tendencies that other unions have employed. The AMLU gang sent out mass emails and made many phone calls encouraging us to band together and not alienate each other. I guess they feel that the page of photos, names and threats is just fair play. Silly me, I thought they were professional. I have also stated (multiple times) that while I would not choose to work those games as a replacement, I find little fault with those who do. The game is bigger than the umpire.

I actually earned the right to offer my opinion on these subjects. I worked those games in those one stoplight towns, albeit a very long time ago. They have it much better than we ever did but you'll never acknowledge that. I wanted them to work those games and only jumped into this fray when a few unenlightened souls insisted that any umpire who works those games is doing it just to screw the ALMU guys. We now know differently...many need the extra revenue, want the challenge and are capable of making the calls. I'm sick of hearing how a blown call here and a bad strikezone there are novel. Those same *****es and moans were heard when the regular guys were out there. Lest we forget the World Baseball Classic, League Championship Series and World Series last year; those umpires were ridiculed for poor officiating and make a hell of a lot more than $50 a game.

Finally, don't pretend that you know more about the negotiation rumblings than you do. Almost every sports talk station has mentioned that the AMLU guys are backed into a corner and are offering new countersto PBUC. They have to, offers aren't coming from the other side. Once they concede enough and realize their folly, MiLB will probably take them back. Since 99% of them wash out anyway, when they return to earth and find that their new partner is one of the guys they called 'scab', it'll be fun to see that plays out. They also know that the D1 boys are ready, willing and able to step in and finish the AA and AAA seasons in another month. After working 3 man and seeing many thousands of pitches for a few months, they will have the luxury of familiarity. Don't kid yourself, those D1 crews can step in and not miss a beat.

Parting Shot: You really should go back and read the old threads before telling us what I think about the issue. My passion for almost every argument comes from dispelling bad information. If that is construed as being emotional, then I will happily accept that mantel. It's better than being a shill.

It was amusing for a time, but now the novelty has worn off. You obviously don't know what you are talking about; you provide false information in every post: "Almost every sports talk station has mentioned that the AMLU guys are backed into a corner and are offering new countersto PBUC. They have to, offers aren't coming from the other side.". I will have better things to do with my evenings, I'll let you have your forum to pretend you were are or are going to be somebody. GO FOR IT, MAKE SOME MORE STUFF UP! ALOT OF GUYS ON HERE WILL BELIEVE YOU AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS.