Replacing Injured FT Shooter = Done for game?

[Nevadaref]

The point is simply that the NFHS doesn't want the player to return to the game without permission from an appropriate health care professional.

That is what the NFHS wrote in its rules book back in 2006-07.

How the official goes about enforcing that is a gray area, but there is no question that doing so is proper, which is what both of you stated was wrong.

Of course, I'm not going to go diagnose such as I'm not qualified for that and so recognize that this directive is problematic for game officials.

However, if I am informed that a player sustained a concussion at some point during the game, then it is my duty to ensure that the appropriate permission is obtained before permitting that person to return to action.

The person who posted that sentiment is 100% correct and the two of you told him otherwise.

[just another ref]

I gotta go with Rut on this one. Consider #'s 2 and 3.

2. Ensure athlete is evaluated by an appropriate health care professional. Do not try to judge the seriousness of the injury yourself.
3. Inform athlete's parents or guardians about the known or possible concussion and give them the fact sheet on concussion.

Is the official supposed to do these, too?

This really seem like an odd thing to be in the rule book. Not to minimize the seriousness of concussions, but what next? Swine flu?

"A player exhibiting flulike symptoms, (sneezing, etc.) or any player known to have recently visited Mexico, should not be allowed to participate without first displaying a vaccination certificate.

[Nevadaref]

I thought that it was poor of the NFHS to put it into the rules book and said so back when it happened, primarily due to some of the instructions which obviously shouldn't pertain to game officials, but that doesn't change the fact that it was indeed published in the rules book, and to my knowledge the position of the NFHS on concussions has not changed.

Therefore, if a player does suffer a concussion during a contest that directive would apply, and the game official has the obligation to not allow the person back in without proper permission.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The point is simply that the NFHS doesn't want the player to return to the game without permission from an appropriate health care professional.

That is what the NFHS wrote in its rules book back in 2006-07.

How the official goes about enforcing that is a gray area, but there is no question that doing so is proper, which is what both of you stated was wrong.

Of course, I'm not going to go diagnose such as I'm not qualified for that and so recognize that this directive is problematic for game officials.

However, if I am informed that a player sustained a concussion at some point during the game, then it is my duty to ensure that the appropriate permission is obtained before permitting that person to return to action.

The person who posted that sentiment is 100% correct and the two of you told him otherwise.

I cannot speak for where you live. But every single rules meeting that I attended that year in all my sports, this was in every single rulebook. And it was also stated that this was not for the officials, it was for the coaches and school representatives that also have to attend those meetings. A couple of meetings I went to there were no coaches or school representatives present, so the interpreters moved on by only mentioning how this was for coaches and school representatives. Having had friends in football get concussions, the only way I figured this out was by talking to them directly. And when both repeated themselves during a playoff game we were losing and all the starters were out of the game, it was clear something was wrong. I would have never had that much interaction with a player in a basketball or football setting. And in many cases I may never talk to most baseball players. And neither of my friends were knocked out of the game or taking off the field. Even in football we might only know if a player comes up wobbly after a hit of some kind. We may never know in basketball where you may have a concussion with not many “visible” signs.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Therefore, if a player does suffer a concussion during a contest that directive would apply, and the game official has the obligation to not allow the person back in without proper permission.

How are you going to know and if no one tells you what are you going to do?

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Therefore, if a player does suffer a concussion during a contest that directive would apply, and the game official has the obligation to not allow the person back in without proper permission.

Now I'm gonna need a definition of what a directive is.

On the one hand I'm warned against calling a violation if I don't see the play clearly, but on the other hand I'm directed what to do if I suspect that a player has a concussion.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How are you going to know and if no one tells you what are you going to do?

You don't and that was my primary objection to the NFHS having officials deal with concussions in the first place. However, if you are informed, then you are obligated to enforce what the NFHS desires.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You don't and that was my primary objection to the NFHS having officials deal with concussions in the first place. However, if you are informed, then you are obligated to enforce what the NFHS desires.

Maybe this was not clear in your area, but other than this board, I have never heard anyone suggest that we should do anything with this at all in any of my sports. This directive came and went without much fanfare or notice. I have no idea what we are supposed to do or enforce anything. Even when you gave the information about getting a medical professional to approve a player to play, how the in heck do we even know how to get that information? This is why I say this is only a guideline for the coaches and schools, not for us.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe this was not clear in your area, but other than this board, I have never heard anyone suggest that we should do anything with this at all in any of my sports. This directive came and went without much fanfare or notice. I have no idea what we are supposed to do or enforce anything. Even when you gave the information about getting a medical professional to approve a player to play, how the in heck do we even know how to get that information? This is why I say this is only a guideline for the coaches and schools, not for us.

How do you know how to do anything? By the same means that you obtain all of your other instructions for games.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Allow the athlete to return to play only with permission from an appropriate health care professional.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Action Plan is not a rule it is a guideline for coaches and school personnel to follow. Officials do not get involved in this aspect of this information.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It was made clear to us that this was about the coaches and the schools and training staffs, not the officials. Officials do not tell someone they have a concussion and not allow players to play as a result.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They were things to help coaches, players and trainers identify concussions and what they should do in the case they think a player has received one.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The position of the NFHS on concussions has not changed. Therefore, if a player does suffer a concussion during a contest that directive would apply, and the game official has the obligation to not allow the person back in without proper permission.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And it was also stated that this was not for the officials, it was for the coaches and school representatives that also have to attend those meetings.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe this was not clear in your area, but other than this board, I have never heard anyone suggest that we should do anything with this at all in any of my sports.This is why I say this is only a guideline for the coaches and schools, not for us.

When this concussions POE first came out, we were told, by our local interpreter, to treat concussions exactly like we had previously treated unconscious players. Some of us questioned this. At the next local meeting, after consulting with the Connecticut state interpreter, who had consulted with the NFHS, we were told that the concussions POE only pertained to school personnel, and did not pertain to officials. The only documentation on this that I have is from my handwritten notes from the two meetings, but I'm 100% sure of the updated interpretation.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Were they playing by NBA rules?

Myth.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You don't and that was my primary objection to the NFHS having officials deal with concussions in the first place. However, if you are informed, then you are obligated to enforce what the NFHS desires.

This is likely one of those "administrative" items that is treated differently in different areas.

I agree with BillyMac and JRutledge that, for officials, the rule applies to being unconcious, and not to suspected (or confirmed) concussions.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How do you know how to do anything? By the same means that you obtain all of your other instructions for games.

Having a concussion is a medial condition. And since I did not go to medical school or having any formal medical training, I am not going to diagnose a condition I have no training to accurately notice, I am not getting involved in that action. Now if this is what your state or association wants to do that is fine with me. But this is three years old, there are no current rules that reference this material you quoted and I am not in a professional capacity to draw a conclusion of when and when a player has a concussion. I am not going there and going to open myself up for more liability because a player plays or does not play in a sport based on what I might think or not think is a medical issue. Now if a player is knocked out, then I can see that and ask for information so they can play. But you can have a concussion and not be knocked out. I am not going to interject myself in that part of the game.

Peace

[Adam]

There is a big danger in granting officials this authority; if we fail to utilize it in a situation where a player has a concussion but we don't know about it, we're setting ourselves up for a lawsuit.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This only applies to an unconscious player, not a player necessarily with a concussion.

Rule 2-8-5 is where you can find this.

Peace

Thanks for the replies.