Illegal Lineup?

[gymwhite]

Teams A and B submit their lineup to the scorers table prior to the game. The umpire checks the lineup on the court and the game begins. Team A serves and scores two points. The third serve rusults in a sideout. Team B rotates and the scorekeeper sees a number on the court which is not on the lineup and no one has substituted. What should be the proper ruling?

Jim

[Grrrrller87]

Nothing, until the ball is served by that team. They were in error prior, but it wasn't caught, and it isn't an error again until a live ball, so no one says anything until the ball is contacted, then IA.

[OmniSpiker]

Kick the umpire in the balls...

LOL's...

Tell everyone that was fo' sho'...practice refereeeeeing...now can we get the real team on the floo'.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by OmniSpiker

Kick the umpire in the balls...

By this point in the match, wouldn't the ball shaggers and the server have them?

[jkumpire]

But, the coach, who has seen or heard all this, is now going to sub in the correct player. And since the ball is dead, she puts in the right player and we have nothing. By the way is it S or R who has the wrong lineup on the floor?

[MCBear]

Sorry, Grrrrller87, but I am going to disagree completely with your answer to this situation. This is a situation where doing nothing is not the proper action for this rules set.

As soon as the scorekeeper informs the Umpire (R2) that there is an incorrect player on the court, it is going to be handled as an illegal substitution (even though the Umpire/R2 messed up big time by not catching it when the line-ups were checked at the beginning of the game).

1 - If the violation is on the serving team, they are going to lose all points that were won while the illegal player was on the court since the opponent has not yet served.

2 - If the violation is on the receiving team, the LOR is going to be canceled, the serving team is going to be awarded a point for the illegal sub being on the court.

In either case, the illegal player must be replaced by the player that is listed on the line-up sheet and, then if the coach wants to sub her back into the game, that is fine.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by MCBear

This is a situation where doing nothing is not the proper action for this rules set.

What ruleset are we talking about? It's not mentioned in the original post.

What would the answer be for NCAA?

[Grrrrller87]

McB,
well, at first I said, "he's full of bull sh_t".... and then I thought about it for a while, and I can't get past the fact that you can see someone block, call the result, watch them walk back to a back-row position and then call a delayed BRB, which wouldn't be significantly different than your scenario, in regards to timing and result..... which would make ME full of "something"!

So, you're right, I'm wrong, and I'm a big water-head dummy!

It is good to think about this stuff, and I guess in the two or three times this has ever come up during a match I was working, it wasn't until the offending team served that it was brought to my attention, which made it feel like a wrong server, but it really wasn't, if you're illegally in the match, that's the real problem.

Have always respected and appreciated your input on the NFHS site, the same still applies...

[MCBear]

John, thanks for your willingness to listen. The only thing that I forgot in my answer was that the offending team is going to be charged with an Unnecessary Delay Time-Out for the illegal player being on the court. The correct player must be on the court at the end of the UD T-O or, as I said earlier, the coach may sub for her if it is desired.

Scrapper, I always assume that the rules set being discussed on this board is NFHS unless the poster states otherwise. For NCAA rules, see 10.3.2 for the specifics of what needs to be done.

[Back In The Saddle]

So illegal substitution AND unnecessary delay?

[OmniSpiker]

However umpire did check the line up and verified players before authorization for the match.

I'd say kick the score keeper in the balls for transposing numbers.

How do we know it's really an illegal player on the court? You never know who's chicken scratch is worse?
Before we start penalizing teams/players we also have to make sure our other referee corps is up to snuff.

[MCBear]

Yep, because the illegal substitution is handled with an Unnecessary Delay Time-Out. Then, any actions taken while the illegal player was on the court are going to be wiped out per my earlier post.