bases loaded walk

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Biggest difference I know of is nfhs all runners are considered to be awarded the next base on the walk, and in asa they are not.

ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.
That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.
That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

There is a difference between forced to advance (or more accurately ... allowed to advance without liability to be put out) and AWARDED.

The other codes are odd here, not ASA... Why would the other runners be AWARDED the next base - they are allowed to advance, and should do so...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.
That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

Ted, here's the case play that makes all the difference.

Bases loaded, two outs, B6 receives a walk. R1 lollygags coming home, while R2 hustles to 3rd, overruns the base, and is tagged out having passed 3rd BEFORE R1 reaches home.

If only the batter is awarded (the rule you cited), and the others are simply forced (ASA), then the run does not score.

If bases to all forced runners are "awarded" (NCAA and NFHS), then the run scores, despite the 3rd out on a timing play preceding the run.

Most of us (I believe, but certainly I) think the ASA ruling is more appropriate, and see no rule (other than an approved/case play ruling) that creates nor supports the NCAA and NFHS position.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Ted, here's the case play that makes all the difference.

Bases loaded, two outs, B6 receives a walk. R1 lollygags coming home, while R2 hustles to 3rd, overruns the base, and is tagged out having passed 3rd BEFORE R1 reaches home.

If only the batter is awarded (the rule you cited), and the others are simply forced (ASA), then the run does not score.

If bases to all forced runners are "awarded" (NCAA and NFHS), then the run scores, despite the 3rd out on a timing play preceding the run.

Most of us (I believe, but certainly I) think the ASA ruling is more appropriate, and see no rule (other than an approved/case play ruling) that creates nor supports the NCAA and NFHS position.

I disagree that the ASA ruling is the best ruling here, at least thinking FP.

Situation: Bases loaded, 3-2 count. Runners are going on the pitch. Batter does not swing and it is called ball 4. Catcher for some reason throws to third. Runner slides in, touches 3rd and overslides third base. She is tagged out after coming off the base, before the runner from third touches home. Under ASA rules the run would not score. I personally think that the bases all should be considered awarded bases is so much as the run scoring goes. I have no problem calling the runner out at third on this, but the run should still score in my opinion. I don't think this should be a timing play situation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I disagree that the ASA ruling is the best ruling here, at least thinking FP.

Situation: Bases loaded, 3-2 count. Runners are going on the pitch. Batter does not swing and it is called ball 4. Catcher for some reason throws to third. Runner slides in, touches 3rd and overslides third base. She is tagged out after coming off the base, before the runner from third touches home. Under ASA rules the run would not score. I personally think that the bases all should be considered awarded bases is so much as the run scoring goes. I have no problem calling the runner out at third on this, but the run should still score in my opinion. I don't think this should be a timing play situation.

I disagree. The runners on base are not affected by the base on balls. They may be affected by the batter becoming a BR, but earned nothing other than a free base if forced.

If the offense chooses to or makes the error of placing themselves in jeopardy, that is all on them. The defense should not take a hit for making a good play on a bad base running.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I disagree. The runners on base are not affected by the base on balls. They may be affected by the batter becoming a BR, but earned nothing other than a free base if forced.

If the offense chooses to or makes the error of placing themselves in jeopardy, that is all on them. The defense should not take a hit for making a good play on a bad base running.

So I gather you approve of the ASA philosophy. By definition then, you disagree w/ the NFHS and NCAA interpretations of this case play?

Which means in your words that the defense WOULD "take a hit" for making a good play on a bad base running action. I.E. the run would count in both NFHS and NCAA.

I don't do NCAA, but I'm going to have to remember which hat I'm wearing if I'm ever confronted with this play in a game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

So I gather you approve of the ASA philosophy. By definition then, you disagree w/ the NFHS and NCAA interpretations of this case play?

Which means in your words that the defense WOULD "take a hit" for making a good play on a bad base running action. I.E. the run would count in both NFHS and NCAA.

I don't do NCAA, but I'm going to have to remember which hat I'm wearing if I'm ever confronted with this play in a game.

Not speaking for Mike... but the NFHS and NCAA interpretations have no rules basis whatsoever in their own rule books ... other than the published interpretation. They are illogical, and contradict every other case where an out is made prior to a run scoring.

If they intend to treat this as an award, change the rule to state that all runners are awarded a base. Currently (as in ASA) it merely states forced runners are allowed to advance a base without liability to be put out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

So I gather you approve of the ASA philosophy. By definition then, you disagree w/ the NFHS and NCAA interpretations of this case play?

Without a doubt

Which means in your words that the defense WOULD "take a hit" for making a good play on a bad base running action. I.E. the run would count in both NFHS and NCAA.

Coach-driven rule sets, what else would you expect?

I don't do NCAA, but I'm going to have to remember which hat I'm wearing if I'm ever confronted with this play in a game.

That should be true all the time.