The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Softball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/)
-   -   bases loaded walk (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/99971-bases-loaded-walk.html)

CecilOne Mon Jul 20, 2015 07:33pm

bases loaded walk
 
Are various rules different on the status of the runners when forced by a base on balls?
e.g.,
- can the runner going home miss the plate and return (not off field)
- is a runner ever safe at the next base after an overrun and a tag
- can a scoring runner be appealed out if missing home plate
- any others you know

Please specify which rules you are discussing.

RKBUmp Mon Jul 20, 2015 07:54pm

Biggest difference I know of is nfhs all runners are considered to be awarded the next base on the walk, and in asa they are not.

CecilOne Wed Jul 22, 2015 04:55pm

Is anyone else like NFHS in this rule?

RKBUmp Wed Jul 22, 2015 05:15pm

I believe NCAA is same as nfhs, not sure about any other rule sets.

MD Longhorn Thu Jul 23, 2015 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 965044)
Are various rules different on the status of the runners when forced by a base on balls?
e.g.,
- can the runner going home miss the plate and return (not off field)
- is a runner ever safe at the next base after an overrun and a tag
- can a scoring runner be appealed out if missing home plate
- any others you know

Please specify which rules you are discussing.

Yes.
No at 2nd or 3rd (or first if they round)
Yes
Ruleset irrelevant on these 3. RKB mentioned the main code difference that applies when the run is the winning run.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Jul 24, 2015 07:30am

Speaking ASA

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 965044)
- can the runner going home miss the plate and return (not off field)

Yes
Quote:

- is a runner ever safe at the next base after an overrun and a tag
Yes and no, depends on the game
Quote:

- can a scoring runner be appealed out if missing home plate
Yes

CecilOne Fri Jul 24, 2015 07:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 965191)
Speaking ASA
Yes

Yes and no, depends on the game

Yes

I was going for whether various rules are different.

However, please cite your "yes" for
"is a runner ever safe at the next base after an overrun and a tag", in ASA.

BretMan Fri Jul 24, 2015 09:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 965192)
I was going for whether various rules are different.

However, please cite your "yes" for
"is a runner ever safe at the next base after an overrun and a tag", in ASA.

I take this to mean in versions of softball where the ball is dead on a walk.

CecilOne Fri Jul 24, 2015 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 965196)
I take this to mean in versions of softball where the ball is dead on a walk.

As in non-pitched walk in slow pitch.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Jul 27, 2015 07:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 965197)
As in non-pitched walk in slow pitch.

Really?

Tru_in_Blu Fri Aug 07, 2015 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 965048)
Biggest difference I know of is nfhs all runners are considered to be awarded the next base on the walk, and in asa they are not.

ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.

That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

MD Longhorn Fri Aug 07, 2015 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 965641)
ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.

That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

There is a difference between forced to advance (or more accurately ... allowed to advance without liability to be put out) and AWARDED.

The other codes are odd here, not ASA... Why would the other runners be AWARDED the next base - they are allowed to advance, and should do so...

AtlUmpSteve Fri Aug 07, 2015 07:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 965641)
ASA Rule 8 Section 1 - THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER

C. When four balls have been called by the umpire. The batter-runner is awarded first base.

That being the case, wouldn't all runners forced to advance as a result of a BB be considered moving to awarded bases?

If the response is "no", please explain the logic.

Ted, here's the case play that makes all the difference.

Bases loaded, two outs, B6 receives a walk. R1 lollygags coming home, while R2 hustles to 3rd, overruns the base, and is tagged out having passed 3rd BEFORE R1 reaches home.

If only the batter is awarded (the rule you cited), and the others are simply forced (ASA), then the run does not score.

If bases to all forced runners are "awarded" (NCAA and NFHS), then the run scores, despite the 3rd out on a timing play preceding the run.

Most of us (I believe, but certainly I) think the ASA ruling is more appropriate, and see no rule (other than an approved/case play ruling) that creates nor supports the NCAA and NFHS position.

chapmaja Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 965657)
Ted, here's the case play that makes all the difference.

Bases loaded, two outs, B6 receives a walk. R1 lollygags coming home, while R2 hustles to 3rd, overruns the base, and is tagged out having passed 3rd BEFORE R1 reaches home.

If only the batter is awarded (the rule you cited), and the others are simply forced (ASA), then the run does not score.

If bases to all forced runners are "awarded" (NCAA and NFHS), then the run scores, despite the 3rd out on a timing play preceding the run.

Most of us (I believe, but certainly I) think the ASA ruling is more appropriate, and see no rule (other than an approved/case play ruling) that creates nor supports the NCAA and NFHS position.

I disagree that the ASA ruling is the best ruling here, at least thinking FP.

Situation: Bases loaded, 3-2 count. Runners are going on the pitch. Batter does not swing and it is called ball 4. Catcher for some reason throws to third. Runner slides in, touches 3rd and overslides third base. She is tagged out after coming off the base, before the runner from third touches home. Under ASA rules the run would not score. I personally think that the bases all should be considered awarded bases is so much as the run scoring goes. I have no problem calling the runner out at third on this, but the run should still score in my opinion. I don't think this should be a timing play situation.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 18, 2015 07:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 965953)
I disagree that the ASA ruling is the best ruling here, at least thinking FP.

Situation: Bases loaded, 3-2 count. Runners are going on the pitch. Batter does not swing and it is called ball 4. Catcher for some reason throws to third. Runner slides in, touches 3rd and overslides third base. She is tagged out after coming off the base, before the runner from third touches home. Under ASA rules the run would not score. I personally think that the bases all should be considered awarded bases is so much as the run scoring goes. I have no problem calling the runner out at third on this, but the run should still score in my opinion. I don't think this should be a timing play situation.

I disagree. The runners on base are not affected by the base on balls. They may be affected by the batter becoming a BR, but earned nothing other than a free base if forced.

If the offense chooses to or makes the error of placing themselves in jeopardy, that is all on them. The defense should not take a hit for making a good play on a bad base running.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1