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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 12:15pm
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I love it.

Although I must say ... if such a protest came to me, my first thought is going to be coming down rather hard on the umpire who did not collect lineup cards, even if they were as esteemed an umpire as Atl.

Then again ... I've truly never heard of a group that didn't take lineups at the plate, with the possible exception of preseason scrimmages and/or post-season all-star style scrimmages - where you have no lineup rules anyway.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 07:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
THIS is the root problem for everything that happened here. Change THIS next year. This is a horrible practice. Don't care if it's middle school ... umpire keeps the lineup at 10U... I admit I'm a little stunned this is typical practice for MS in ANY game ANYwhere.

That said ... when CR went in, was it announced as a CR, or did she just go in? If the latter, you have an unannounced sub - treat accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Here's my suggestion, and how I would handled from the start.

At the pregame conference, I would have stated to both "balking" coaches that if they did not give me an official lineup, then they were both waiving all lineup violations; be it intentional or unintentional, I would not rule on any batting out of order or substitution violations. The only official lineup is the one in the PU's possession, so if no lineup to check, there are no violations.

Had they proceeded as they did, my decision to the defensive coach is that he waived the right to make that appeal, so there is and will be no violation for me to rule. So how do feel about not giving me an official lineup now, coach?

Protest? Sure. Ruling: You waived your right to appeal when you didn't give the PU a lineup. Your statement that is an illegal sub cannot be verified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I love it.

Although I must say ... if such a protest came to me, my first thought is going to be coming down rather hard on the umpire who did not collect lineup cards, even if they were as esteemed an umpire as Atl.

Then again ... I've truly never heard of a group that didn't take lineups at the plate, with the possible exception of preseason scrimmages and/or post-season all-star style scrimmages - where you have no lineup rules anyway.

Gentlemen:

Read my original post, the rules are already in place and there is no need to formulate some sort of compromise. Inform the HCs at the pre-game conference that the conference will not go forward until they produce copies of their team's lineups for you.

MTD, Sr.
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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Tue Jun 09, 2015 at 07:20am. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 10:16pm
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Yep, read your post.

Not everything in my world is as absolute as it appears to be in yours.

I get this would never happen to you. But it happened someplace else.

Other than time travel back to the plate conference or even before, do you have any other pearls of wisdom?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 09, 2015, 11:33am
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OK, I get all the lecturing on never go ahead without a lineup card, and I agree with that if the lineup rules are expected to be enforced by the book.

But, in the moment as described in the OP, you have no ideal solution. Your only real choice, since it was stated that each team is managing their own lineup, is to consider the team's book as official, just as if it was in your pocket.

Examine the book. That would settle the "announced" or "unannounced" question. Since the PU is not keeping a lineup, telling the PU is not announcing anything.

If the notation in the book is for a CR, it is an illegal substitute.
If the notation is for a pinch runner, no penalty.
If there is no notation, it is an unannounced illegal substitute, since the coach verbally stated it was a CR.

Again... this is my view on how the situation presented should have been handled once the plate meeting went as it did.
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