[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

THIS is the root problem for everything that happened here. Change THIS next year. This is a horrible practice. Don't care if it's middle school ... umpire keeps the lineup at 10U... I admit I'm a little stunned this is typical practice for MS in ANY game ANYwhere.

That said ... when CR went in, was it announced as a CR, or did she just go in? If the latter, you have an unannounced sub - treat accordingly.

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Here's my suggestion, and how I would handled from the start.

At the pregame conference, I would have stated to both "balking" coaches that if they did not give me an official lineup, then they were both waiving all lineup violations; be it intentional or unintentional, I would not rule on any batting out of order or substitution violations. The only official lineup is the one in the PU's possession, so if no lineup to check, there are no violations.

Had they proceeded as they did, my decision to the defensive coach is that he waived the right to make that appeal, so there is and will be no violation for me to rule. So how do feel about not giving me an official lineup now, coach?

Protest? Sure. Ruling: You waived your right to appeal when you didn't give the PU a lineup. Your statement that is an illegal sub cannot be verified.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I love it.

Although I must say ... if such a protest came to me, my first thought is going to be coming down rather hard on the umpire who did not collect lineup cards, even if they were as esteemed an umpire as Atl.

Then again ... I've truly never heard of a group that didn't take lineups at the plate, with the possible exception of preseason scrimmages and/or post-season all-star style scrimmages - where you have no lineup rules anyway.

Gentlemen:

Read my original post, the rules are already in place and there is no need to formulate some sort of compromise. Inform the HCs at the pre-game conference that the conference will not go forward until they produce copies of their team's lineups for you.

MTD, Sr.