Dealing with DDs

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, the Fed rule is worded rather curiously...

Note the underlined part. If the OP had not yet announced the sub to the opposing coach, and the fielder had not yet taken the field... well, was the substitution official? Apparently not.

Okay, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the word "announce" included what the coach does to report a substitution to the plate umpire.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however: Don't we always say that what is written in the plate umpire's line-up card is official should there be a dispute between the scorebook and the card? So shouldn't that mean that a change is consummated when it's written down and verified by the coach making the change?

I don't necessarily buy the argument that a substitution is not official until the announcement is made to the opposing head coach. That sets different standards when the coach who initially made the substitution can change his/her mind. If the head coach is acting as third base coach, and he/she gives me a batting order change near the third-base dugout that is occupied by the opposing team, I can make that change official a lot quicker than I can make a change official if I have to walk over to the first-base dugout if that's the one belonging to the other team.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Okay, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the word "announce" included what the coach does to report a substitution to the plate umpire.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however: Don't we always say that what is written in the plate umpire's line-up card is official should there be a dispute between the scorebook and the card? So shouldn't that mean that a change is consummated when it's written down and verified by the coach making the change?

I don't necessarily buy the argument that a substitution is not official until the announcement is made to the opposing head coach. That sets different standards when the coach who initially made the substitution can change his/her mind. If the head coach is acting as third base coach, and he/she gives me a batting order change near the third-base dugout that is occupied by the opposing team, I can make that change official a lot quicker than I can make a change official if I have to walk over to the first-base dugout if that's the one belonging to the other team.

Well, count me as among those who considered a reported sub to be official when it has been reported to the PU and recorded on his lineup.

But, going back to read a rule is sometimes a good thing!

Anyway, it also does say the sub should be reported "immediately." The wording is curious because it implies a case where the sub is never announced, but does it also imply a 2-step process: 1) report to the PU, and 2) PU announces.

I keep thinking that I am over-thinking...

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, count me as among those who considered a reported sub to be official when it has been reported to the PU and recorded on his lineup.

But, going back to read a rule is sometimes a good thing!

Anyway, it also does say the sub should be reported "immediately." The wording is curious because it implies a case where the sub is never announced, but does it also imply a 2-step process: 1) report to the PU, and 2) PU announces.

I keep thinking that I am over-thinking...

I think the rule is written curiously because it covers all possible situations: a change where the PU does his job and announces to the opponent (at which point the change is official) AND when the PU brain-farts on announcing the change (sub NOT official until PU points the ball back into play).

On a side note, I am not a baseball guy and I hated the Fed softball mechanic of pointing the ball into play. Mostly, because I forget to do it. I dislike it a little less now that I see there is actually a rule where it makes sense AND covers my backside.

[CecilOne]

"pointing the ball into play" Is this still used?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

"pointing the ball into play" Is this still used?

I don't about you but MTD, Jr., and I umpire both baseball (NFHS), fast pitch softball (NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA), and Special Olympics softball (ASA slow pitch) and whenever the ball is dead we always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirely) by saying "play" and pointing to the pitcher.

MTD, Sr.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

"pointing the ball into play" Is this still used?

Not only is it still around, it was a "point" of emphasis this year (hahaha puns): http://www.cifss.org/manage/images/n...%20website.pdf

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Okay, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the word "announce" included what the coach does to report a substitution to the plate umpire.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however: Don't we always say that what is written in the plate umpire's line-up card is official should there be a dispute between the scorebook and the card? So shouldn't that mean that a change is consummated when it's written down and verified by the coach making the change?

I don't necessarily buy the argument that a substitution is not official until the announcement is made to the opposing head coach. That sets different standards when the coach who initially made the substitution can change his/her mind. If the head coach is acting as third base coach, and he/she gives me a batting order change near the third-base dugout that is occupied by the opposing team, I can make that change official a lot quicker than I can make a change official if I have to walk over to the first-base dugout if that's the one belonging to the other team.

To me, I use a variation of the NCAA "RARA", record, affirm, report, announce; it protects all parties, in my mind.

1) Record; write what the coach tells me.
2) Affirm; repeat it back, get coach's agreement.
3) Report; to opposing coach.
4) Announce; to official scorer (if there is one).

Me, step 5 is I CIRCLE the change (new player's number) on my lineup card. That tells me I have completed all steps, and the change is now official. Until then, it can still be killed by the reporting coach, as the "announce" wasn't complete.

The other steps of taking their place and ball made live apply to unreported subs being officially in the game; they are not necessary for reported subs.