Dealing with DDs

[jmkupka]

Earlier in the game, I (PU) overhear 3B coach telling his runner on 3B "don't give me the attitude, during the game I'm your coach, not your dad, and I'll sit you if you don't knock it off." This runner was a sub for a starter.

Later, with starter back in the game, coach announces he's re-entering DD (not his exact words). I repeat the numbers to him, show him what I'm marking down, and he verifies.

As I walk away, I hear behind me,
"What's with the face? Forget it, you're sitting. Blue, cancel that sub."
"Sorry, coach, it's reported, and official."

No other subs available, by the way...

Much arguing ensues (not with me)... I enjoy it immensely.

Overofficiating? I think not.

[RKBUmp]

What rule set? NFHS changed the rule a couple of years ago that subs are not official until reported and the ball is put back into play.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

What rule set? NFHS changed the rule a couple of years ago that subs are not official until reported and the ball is put back into play.

And takes her position.

[BretMan]

And reported to the other team's head coach.

[jmkupka]

Pony

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

... I enjoy it immensely...

Having raised 2 daughters, I have to ask... why?

[jmkupka]

... as have I, Tom, and I greatly enjoyed their stubbornness when being coached by their mom in their youth.
Used to be frustrating. Now it's just amusing.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

... as have I, Tom, and I greatly enjoyed their stubbornness when being coached by their mom in their youth.
Used to be frustrating. Now it's just amusing.

Gotcha... but maybe you have a streak of evil in you?

[darkside]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

... as have I, Tom, and I greatly enjoyed their stubbornness when being coached by their mom in their youth.
Used to be frustrating. Now it's just amusing.

You are cruel man. A very cruel man.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

What rule set? NFHS changed the rule a couple of years ago that subs are not official until reported and the ball is put back into play.

Where does it say that? The only thing I can find about a sub becoming official when the ball is put in play is for an unreported substitute. AFAIC, a reported substitution becomes official when I write it down in my line-up card and verify the change with the head coach who made it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Where does it say that? The only thing I can find about a sub becoming official when the ball is put in play is for an unreported substitute. AFAIC, a reported substitution becomes official when I write it down in my line-up card and verify the change with the head coach who made it.

Well, the Fed rule is worded rather curiously...

ART. 3 . . . The plate umpire shall record all substitutions on the lineup card and then announce immediately any change(s) to the opposing team’s head coach. Projected substitutions are not permitted. If there is no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when:

a. a runner takes the place of a runner she has replaced.

b. a pitcher takes her place on the pitcher's plate.

c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder she has replaced.

d. a batter takes her place in the batter's box.

e. and, in each of the above situations, when the ball is declared live by the plate umpire.

Note the underlined part. If the OP had not yet announced the sub to the opposing coach, and the fielder had not yet taken the field... well, was the substitution official? Apparently not.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, the Fed rule is worded rather curiously...

Note the underlined part. If the OP had not yet announced the sub to the opposing coach, and the fielder had not yet taken the field... well, was the substitution official? Apparently not.

Okay, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the word "announce" included what the coach does to report a substitution to the plate umpire.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however: Don't we always say that what is written in the plate umpire's line-up card is official should there be a dispute between the scorebook and the card? So shouldn't that mean that a change is consummated when it's written down and verified by the coach making the change?

I don't necessarily buy the argument that a substitution is not official until the announcement is made to the opposing head coach. That sets different standards when the coach who initially made the substitution can change his/her mind. If the head coach is acting as third base coach, and he/she gives me a batting order change near the third-base dugout that is occupied by the opposing team, I can make that change official a lot quicker than I can make a change official if I have to walk over to the first-base dugout if that's the one belonging to the other team.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Okay, I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the word "announce" included what the coach does to report a substitution to the plate umpire.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however: Don't we always say that what is written in the plate umpire's line-up card is official should there be a dispute between the scorebook and the card? So shouldn't that mean that a change is consummated when it's written down and verified by the coach making the change?

I don't necessarily buy the argument that a substitution is not official until the announcement is made to the opposing head coach. That sets different standards when the coach who initially made the substitution can change his/her mind. If the head coach is acting as third base coach, and he/she gives me a batting order change near the third-base dugout that is occupied by the opposing team, I can make that change official a lot quicker than I can make a change official if I have to walk over to the first-base dugout if that's the one belonging to the other team.

Well, count me as among those who considered a reported sub to be official when it has been reported to the PU and recorded on his lineup.

But, going back to read a rule is sometimes a good thing!

Anyway, it also does say the sub should be reported "immediately." The wording is curious because it implies a case where the sub is never announced, but does it also imply a 2-step process: 1) report to the PU, and 2) PU announces.

I keep thinking that I am over-thinking...

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, count me as among those who considered a reported sub to be official when it has been reported to the PU and recorded on his lineup.

But, going back to read a rule is sometimes a good thing!

Anyway, it also does say the sub should be reported "immediately." The wording is curious because it implies a case where the sub is never announced, but does it also imply a 2-step process: 1) report to the PU, and 2) PU announces.

I keep thinking that I am over-thinking...

I think the rule is written curiously because it covers all possible situations: a change where the PU does his job and announces to the opponent (at which point the change is official) AND when the PU brain-farts on announcing the change (sub NOT official until PU points the ball back into play).

On a side note, I am not a baseball guy and I hated the Fed softball mechanic of pointing the ball into play. Mostly, because I forget to do it. I dislike it a little less now that I see there is actually a rule where it makes sense AND covers my backside.

[CecilOne]

"pointing the ball into play" Is this still used?