NFHS: Situations from Tonight & Rules Support?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Is that documented and is it because a BR can't go backward?

I don't know where this might be written down and it has nothing to do with not being able to retreat (which is only to avoid a tag anyway). I judge player to be obstructed for the amount of time that they are immediately affected by the obstruction. So a player tripped on her way to first who lands before the bag is obstructed between home and 1st. A player tripped on her way to first who lands past the bag is obstructed between home and 1st and between 1st and 2nd.
If you don't judge it that way you have quite the problem because the latter runner would otherwise be in advance of the base they would have reached absent the obstruction and not in the segment they were obstructed in which means they could be put out. I see it the same way for a player rounding a base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't know where this might be written down and it has nothing to do with not being able to retreat (which is only to avoid a tag anyway).

I KNOW about the BR tag play INT; trying to see why before 1st is different than other bases.

Originally Posted by youngump

I judge player to be obstructed for the amount of time that they are immediately affected by the obstruction. So a player tripped on her way to first who lands before the bag is obstructed between home and 1st. A player tripped on her way to first who lands past the bag is obstructed between home and 1st and between 1st and 2nd.
If you don't judge it that way you have quite the problem because the latter runner would otherwise be in advance of the base they would have reached absent the obstruction and not in the segment they were obstructed in which means they could be put out. I see it the same way for a player rounding a base.

Why not by where the OBS occurs?

A runner rounding a base is part of continuing, once they have reached it (i.e. at the base), so the OBS can apply to the next "between".

I don't see " the latter runner would otherwise be in advance of the base they would have reached absent the obstruction and not in the segment they were obstructed in which means they could be put out" as a problem.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I KNOW about the BR tag play INT; trying to see why before 1st is different than other bases.

It's not different because it happened at first. His statement could just as easily have been if the Runner is obstructed rounding 2B but in the OP the runner was at 1st.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I don't see " the latter runner would otherwise be in advance of the base they would have reached absent the obstruction and not in the segment they were obstructed in which means they could be put out" as a problem.

Because it would encourage the first baseman to take out the runner while the 2nd basemen took the throw for the tag. A good tackle before first base could leave the runner off the base easily long enough for the ball to come in and get the out.
(Even if you dealt with it with an ejection at the right time in the game it might be worth it.)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

It's not different because it happened at first. His statement could just as easily have been if the Runner is obstructed rounding 2B but in the OP the runner was at 1st.

I read in the OP "BR is obstructed on the way into 1B by F3"; followed by "as she runs though the bag "
Maybe the OP needs clarification.

If the OBS was literally at 1st, then yes, on the way to 2nd, as you and Mike said.

[UmpireErnie]

Re the OBS at or prior to 1B.

The umpire must make a judgement as to both where the OBS occurred and how far the runner or batter/runner will be protected.

If a fielder clearly obstructs the BR prior to 1B the the insofar as the "cannot be put out between the two bases where she was obstructed.." part of the rule is concerned she cannot be putout between HP and 1B. However the umpire may also judge that while the OBS was between HP and 1B the batter/runner would have likely reached 2B sans the OBS and in that case the protection under 8-4-3-b would still apply.

But I think it's a stretch to say that OBS which clearly happens between HP and 1B and causes the BR to round 1B wide qualifies as OBS between 1B and 2B. Ponder this: batter hits sharp grounder to F6 which skips off her glove. She chases the ball down behind and on F6 side of 2B as BR scampers to 1B inside the foul line. F3 playing a couple of feet in front of 1B and near the foul line causes BR to alter her path into foul ground. U1 signals OBS. BR touches 1B and awkwardly rounds the bag. 1B off coach sees DDB signal and tells BR (now a Runner) to try for 2B. Runner makes very futile effort and slides into waiting tag of F4. Unless judged at time of OBS that BR would have likely reached 2B I have an out here even if BR rounded wide because the OBS happened between home and 1B.

If the OBS is caused by fielder being right at 1B without the ball then I judge that to be occurring between 1B and 2B and protect accordingly.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Re the OBS at or prior to 1B.
If the OBS is caused by fielder being right at 1B without the ball then I judge that to be occurring between 1B and 2B and protect accordingly.

And in that case, if the coach sends the runner into an out at 2nd, a likely award of 1st would apply.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I read in the OP "BR is obstructed on the way into 1B by F3"; followed by "as she runs though the bag "
Maybe the OP needs clarification.

If the OBS was literally at 1st, then yes, on the way to 2nd, as you and Mike said.

F3 stood five or six feet up the first base line in front of the bag, in the direct path the runner took from HP to 1B. There was no way in my judgment the BR would have safely reached 2B on the hit absent any obstruction, nor was she taking a path to round the bag until after the obstruction. This is why I only protected the runner to 1B.

In the cases of obstruction while rounding as mentioned earlier, yes, I would have awarded 1B to the runner if tagged out in the same way.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by teebob21

F3 stood five or six feet up the first base line in front of the bag, in the direct path the runner took from HP to 1B. There was no way in my judgment the BR would have safely reached 2B on the hit absent any obstruction, nor was she taking a path to round the bag until after the obstruction. This is why I only protected the runner to 1B.

In the cases of obstruction while rounding as mentioned earlier, yes, I would have awarded 1B to the runner if tagged out in the same way.

6 feet from first? Protected between 1st and 2nd. That's 2 steps. You don't think the fielder's existence right at that spot altered the path the runner would have taken between 1st and 2nd?

Unless there was a play on her and she was clearly intending to run straight through first base, you've got to protect her between 1st and 2nd.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

6 feet from first? Protected between 1st and 2nd. That's 2 steps. You don't think the fielder's existence right at that spot altered the path the runner would have taken between 1st and 2nd?

Unless there was a play on her and she was clearly intending to run straight through first base, you've got to protect her between 1st and 2nd.

Six feet (two steps) prior to 1B seems to be between HP and 1B not between 1B and 2B. The BR could be protected to 2B but not under the "between the bases" part of OBS. The umpire would have to judge the BR had a chance to make 2B sans the OBS prior to 1B would s/he not?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I KNOW about the BR tag play INT; trying to see why before 1st is different than other bases.

It's not.

This would be the same at 2nd or 3rd.