UIL Rules - Jr. NBA - situations

[ace]

I live in the greater Houston area and am an official (rather young - 15) for a Jr. NBA affliliated league. Since we are in Texas our commishoner has opted to put UIL rules in place. The UIL rule book covers alot of things but nothing in regards to officiating. They send you to TASO to get one and I'm to young to become a member. I'd like to have a hard copy of both the UIL rule book and the TASO offiicating hand book. Does anyone know how I could obtain these?

Also I was calling a 10-11 year old game the other night with a partner whos 18. I had a parent that kept riding us from the 2nd period. Ignored him till half time. After half time i think he was pipped up even mroe and it got really bad. I was trying to talk to the table and the gym is loud enough as it is. I had 20 sec left on the clock so i blocked him out and finsihed the game. He was PO'd and came to approach me after the game telling me I'm a horrible official (league commish was observing) I said games over please leave and signaled for the building administrator to escort him out- Didnt take to kindly. It has since been handed over to the leauge for action. Should I just have T'd his sons team and had him escorted out when he first became a problem?

Last night I had an edgy game with 12-15 year olds again. Same partner different coaches. No problems but one team was defitnly sloppier than the other and it looked as if they game was lopsided. Coaches arent the problem in this league it appears parents are. This time it was directed towards my partner but this guys wife shut him up before we had to. But if a player commits a violation and throws a ball over his back in frustration is that a technical? I warned the coach who took the kid out and talked to him all was well.

I've gotten alot of respect from the coaches and players espcially in the older age groups which is were most of my assignments fall. (i have hard time adapting to the no-calls for the younger age groups and the officiating director is gracious enough to see that)

[Mark Padgett]

OK - I give up. What's UIL?

[Jurassic Referee]

Ace,welcome to the Forum.

I believe Texas high schools use NCAA rules.If not,someone will correct me.You can find them online at:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules.html
You'll need PDF to see them.Just click on the basketball rules,or probably better for you,the illustrated basketball rules.

As for the parent problem,always have the gym administrator,or-if you can't find one-have the head coach of the home team deal with them.Just stop the game until they're calmed down or ejected.Forget about the technical foul for the parents' actions.Don't penalise the ball players for someone else's action.

Good luck with your officiating career!

[Nevadaref]

Your actions and writing would have made me believe you were much older. You conduct yourself quite well and I am sure will become an excellent official.
Best Wishes

[ace]

I told that teams coach after the game and after this guy had been pulled. I'm in the best situation in my life right now. I just moved to the area this summer and I have nothing on these players,parents or coaches. The only thing I have to look at is first impressions people make. We have a few coaches with Zero Tolerance warnings on them and I never know who they are. My schedule is marked with a @0 symbol if there is a coach like that. So yeah- im having a great time. If officiating doesnt become a carrer for me it'll be a great side job as I get older and can move into school ball and such.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Ace,welcome to the Forum.

I believe Texas high schools use NCAA rules.If not,someone will correct me.

Texas follows NF rules, with a very few modifications. The main modification is that we use a 6 box for the coaches to stand.

When you turn 16 you will be able to become a member of TASO, eligible to work 7th and 8th grade games. I promise you that there are more than enough to go around.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
OK - I give up. What's UIL?

Mark,

The UIL is the governing body that oversees all extracurricular activities in the state of Texas. It is actually a part of the University of Texas. Sports is only one of the spectors that they legislate rules. Their rulings are about as convoluted and hard to understand as the NCAA rules are in many instances.

On the positive side, the UIL has made a very concerted effort to make sure that they do not control the officiating in the state. They leave that up to TASO, which is the officiating organization for the state. However, the UIL does set the pay scale for games in the state, and does have the final say as to which officials work the state tournament in basketball every year. This is done with imput from the various local chapters of TASO across the state.

I'm sure by now that you are sorry you asked the question.

[Jeremy Hohn]

Yes the UIL and TASO have been working together for the betterment of both officials and schools for a couple of years now since we have broken off from the old SOA (southwest officials association) that used to include both New Mexico and Oklahoma.
I also echo the earlier statement that you seem to be mature far beyond your years and look to have a long sucessful officiating career. I have a buddy up in Lubbock that has been doing College ball since 18!! So go for it!
As far as giving the son's team a "T" that would be a no-no. I would just have the dad removed and then allow the kids to resume the game. Quite often the players are embarrassed about their parent's conduct and penalizing them for fan actions should be used as a ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT! That is why it is important to have game administration present at all levels to take care of problems. Good luck with your career, and continue to come here for help and tips on officiating. If you have any Texas specific questions, feel free to email me at [email protected].

[ace]

Reason I ask about the players team is because I know the league commishoner outside of the leauge and when I was talking to him today he said the player may possibly be suspended depending on what that age groups commish decides. And to me that didn't sound right. Why tell the kid he can't play when his dad is the one who was the problem. Like I said though its out of my hands.

No one really answered my question about the player throwing the ball over his back yet.

Also- Over the back is not technically a foul. The league wants us to call this. I usually call over the back calls as a push or illegal contact because technically the player is pushing with his body. :-D

And when a coach wants to talk during a dead ball is it a time out? I got the basics down but there are the little nit pick things that I'm starting to look at it. Close guarding in the older games and stuff like that. Stuff I'm starting to see. Amazing how enlighting rule book reading is.

[Jeremy Hohn]

Ace,
If there is ANY outward action of disgust directed towards YOU or YOUR CALL by a player, "T" it up. I have FAR less leash for players than I do for coaches. Don't get in the habit of using "over the back" as either a verbage or a call. Everyone thinks that there is some kind of plane rule in rebounding and there flat out ISN'T! One thing to also keep in mind in refereeing rebounding is the trajectory of the ball. Say for instance a defensive player is in the inside of the offense blocking out, but the ball bounces hard off the back iron, and clears the inside defender. Now the offense seems to be blocking out the defense due to the trajectory of the ball. If the defense, who started out on the inside "jumps back" into the offensive player, you can and should have a foul on the defense. Remember that.

Oh Oh...when dealing with coaches, if they wan't to talk, usually it can be done during a time out, but use your better judgement. You don't want to carry on a conversation during live ball play, because frankly, heck you have a game to officiate!! It is not REQUIRED to call a time out to talk to you, but keep it brief, and in areas of judgement, just use quick replies like "that isn't what I saw coach" and move on.

[Edited by Jeremy Hohn on Dec 15th, 2002 at 10:35 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jeremy Hohn
Everyone thinks that there is some kind of plane rule in rebounding and there flat out ISN'T!

There flat out ARE plane rules in the NFHS rulebook-specifically R-4-44-2,3,4,5&6! Every one of those mentions a "vertical plane",and every one is also applicable to rebounding.NCAA uses the same concepts,too.

[Jeremy Hohn]

okay...I guess I need to be more specific.....so if a player that is 6'5" reaches over a kid that is 5'2", you call over the back or whatever they call it? NO! That is what I was refering to. I know well that there is verticality and plane rules mentioned in the rule book, yes.

[ROMANO]

I'm new in this forum and i want to know what is the minimum age to start officiating in the U.S?
in my country(israel)the minimum age is 16 and in this age i started to call games

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jeremy Hohn
okay...I guess I need to be more specific.....so if a player that is 6'5" reaches over a kid that is 5'2", you call over the back or whatever they call it? NO! That is what I was refering to.

Yup,you're now calling the play according to the "plane" rules.I figured it was just a language mix-up,but it could have possibly confused the newer officials that come here.

[ROMANO]

To jurassic refree
i'm sorry that my language is not so good like your's but i will try not to upset you....