Interference w/o a Possible Play

[Manny A]

I've looked in the ASA book for any reference to situations where an offensive player or coach may interfere with a live ball, but because there was no play being made at the time, an out of a runner isn't really warranted. For example, runner at second advances to third on a wild pitch that caroms off the catcher toward the on-deck batter, the ODB picks up the ball and tosses it to the catcher, and there was no possible play by the catcher on the runner.

In fact, RS #33 says, in part, "When batter, batter-runner, on-deck batter or coach interference occurs, the ball is dead, someone must be called out, and each other runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference."

The only thing close refers to blocked balls by loose equipment in RS #17, where if a play is not apparent, no one is called out. But can you have a similar "blocked ball" situation involving players or coaches where an out is not warranted? The definition of Blocked Ball in Rule 1 does refer to a person not engaged in the game, but I cannot find anything under Rule 8, particularly 8-8, that references a scenario involving a blocked ball by a person.

Or am I just not looking in the right place?

[MD Longhorn]

"When batter, batter-runner, on-deck batter or coach interference occurs"

If there's no play, interference didn't occur.

[Dakota]

Try looking in the definition of interference. No play, no interference.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The only thing close refers to blocked balls by loose equipment in RS #17, where if a play is not apparent, no one is called out. But can you have a similar "blocked ball" situation involving players or coaches where an out is not warranted? The definition of Blocked Ball in Rule 1 does refer to a person not engaged in the game, but I cannot find anything under Rule 8, particularly 8-8, that references a scenario involving a blocked ball by a person.

Or am I just not looking in the right place?

IMO, an offensive player that is not a batter, batter-runner or runner is not engaged in the game All offensive personnel are required to avoid committing an act of INT. Remember, even the ODB is allowed to leave their assigned area to direct a runner, but that rule does not absolve them from INT.

Example of BB without INT is what I had a couple years ago. A ball thrown from RF rolled through the infield, but runners had come to a stop on their respective bases and no fielder was chasing the ball. The 3B coach stopped the ball with her foot. If she did not, it would have just rolled another 10-12' to the fence, but there still was no possible play since the defense was not making an effort. In turn, I could not let play continue since the coach stopped the ball.

I killed it and ruled a blocked ball. You have to kill it

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

"When batter, batter-runner, on-deck batter or coach interference occurs"

If there's no play, interference didn't occur.

But you have to have a reason to kill play. Obviously you wouldn't leave the ball live because someone who shouldn't touch the ball did so.

So, do you rule it a Blocked Ball? By the ASA definition, a blocked ball could involve people not in the game. But there is no effect to that situation. RS #17 only talks of equipment, not people. Just trying to close that gap.

[MD Longhorn]

How about an example.

Runner on third. Batter hits into a routine grounder and is thrown out at first, runner crosses the plate. F3 overthrows the pitcher and it rolls to the 3rd base coach, who picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.

3BC just handled a live ball, right? Ball is dead now (if someone wanted to appeal R1 missing home, for example, in a ruleset that doesn't accept dead-ball appeals, it would need to be made live before that appeal would be allive). Are you calling someone out? Of course not.

Other scenario. Runners on 1st and 3rd; Batter hits into a routine grounder and is thrown out at first. Runner from 3rd crosses the plate, Runner from 1st to 2nd, and is standing on 2nd, doing nothing. F3 overthrows the pitcher and it rolls to the 3rd base coach, who picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.

3BC just handled a live ball, right? Are you calling someone out? I surely hope not. Even though there's a baserunner, there's no PLAY. The fact that the basecoach handled a live ball does not mean he committed interference. Is the ball dead now? Yes. Interference? No.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How about an example.

Runner on third. Batter hits into a routine grounder and is thrown out at first, runner crosses the plate. F3 overthrows the pitcher and it rolls to the 3rd base coach, who picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.

3BC just handled a live ball, right? Ball is dead now (if someone wanted to appeal R1 missing home, for example, in a ruleset that doesn't accept dead-ball appeals, it would need to be made live before that appeal would be allive). Are you calling someone out? Of course not.

Other scenario. Runners on 1st and 3rd; Batter hits into a routine grounder and is thrown out at first. Runner from 3rd crosses the plate, Runner from 1st to 2nd, and is standing on 2nd, doing nothing. F3 overthrows the pitcher and it rolls to the 3rd base coach, who picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.

3BC just handled a live ball, right? Are you calling someone out? I surely hope not. Even though there's a baserunner, there's no PLAY. The fact that the basecoach handled a live ball does not mean he committed interference. Is the ball dead now? Yes. Interference? No.

No problem whatsoever with your examples. Now, give me the rule that justifies these calls.

And here's one more example for you. Runner at first. Pitcher delivers one in the dirt that hits the catcher in the chest protector. The ball ends up in front of the batter. Runner doesn't try to advance. Batter has a brain cramp, and picks up the ball to hand to the catcher. Dead ball? Yes. But if it's not interference since there was no possibility of a play on the runner, what rule justifies the dead ball call?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by manny a

no problem whatsoever with your examples. Now, give me the rule that justifies these calls.

And here's one more example for you. Runner at first. Pitcher delivers one in the dirt that hits the catcher in the chest protector. The ball ends up in front of the batter. Runner doesn't try to advance. Batter has a brain cramp, and picks up the ball to hand to the catcher. Dead ball? Yes. But if it's not interference since there was no possibility of a play on the runner, what rule justifies the dead ball call?

10.4.a

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

10.4.a

Yeah, great.

Here's the problem: I had a situation during a weekend ASA tourney where an ODB did pick up a live ball with a runner on base. The runner was on third, and was on her way home after the catcher muffed the pitch. No way the defense was going to make a play on her, but when the ODB picked up the ball, the runner hadn't reached home yet. So I ruled a dead ball, and sent the runner back to third.

Of course, that opened up a whine session by both coaches. The OC wanted the run to score since she would have easily made it despite the ODB's bonehead mistake. That one was easily quelled because the rule on blocked balls is an immediate dead ball and runners return to the last base touched at the time of the dead ball call.

The DC wanted the runner ruled out because of interference. I said there was no interference since there was no chance of a play. But when I went back to look for the rule on blocked balls by an offensive player, I couldn't find anything to justify my call.

You would think that ASA could make a reference to a blocked ball by an offensive player or coach under rule 8-5-G EXCEPTION 3, and in RS #33H. But both only refer to equipment. They refer to it under the Definition of Blocked Ball, but that's it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Yeah, great.

Here's the problem: I had a situation during a weekend ASA tourney where an ODB did pick up a live ball with a runner on base. The runner was on third, and was on her way home after the catcher muffed the pitch. No way the defense was going to make a play on her, but when the ODB picked up the ball, the runner hadn't reached home yet. So I ruled a dead ball, and sent the runner back to third.

Of course, that opened up a whine session by both coaches. The OC wanted the run to score since she would have easily made it despite the ODB's bonehead mistake. That one was easily quelled because the rule on blocked balls is an immediate dead ball and runners return to the last base touched at the time of the dead ball call.

The DC wanted the runner ruled out because of interference. I said there was no interference since there was no chance of a play. But when I went back to look for the rule on blocked balls by an offensive player, I couldn't find anything to justify my call.

You would think that ASA could make a reference to a blocked ball by an offensive player or coach under rule 8-5-G EXCEPTION 3, and in RS #33H. But both only refer to equipment. They refer to it under the Definition of Blocked Ball, but that's it.

You've been told which rule to use (and no, it's not blocked ball). I'm not sure what you're saying here. You did right - coaches fought for what they wanted and were both wrong. Typical day on the field, isn't it?

No out because there was no play. No run because ODB caused you to kill the play before his runner had crossed the plate. Right call. What's the issue?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Right call. What's the issue?

Well, duh, the issue is the coaches!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, duh, the issue is the coaches!

I can't object to a coach making a reasonable effort for their team, just in case.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I can't object to a coach making a reasonable effort for their team, just in case.

Don't think anyone suggested that be the case.