how many outs do you have?

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

I don't have an ASA book, it is dead NFHS. So Fast Pitch ASA it is also dead?

Yes.

[agr8zebra]

Thanks LIUmp, so it is the effect you noted in 8-2 d-h?

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

Thanks LIUmp, so it is the effect you noted in 8-2 d-h?

Yes. Though I don't like it, it is the rule.

[agr8zebra]

Yes there are a lot of rules that in my opinion need changed. I guess I should start a thread about rules that need changed.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Yes. Though I don't like it, it is the rule.

I agree, the rule penalizes the defense for an action which the offense made. Yes, the offense gets hit with an out, but they get an out on the batter-runner, not the runner who is in scoring position.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

Yes there are a lot of rules that in my opinion need changed. I guess I should start a thread about rules that need changed.

We may not have enough bandwith for that discussion.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

In fed the ball is dead when the batter runner enters the dugout.

Oooh, I feel sheepish. I didn't realize the rule required killing the play to call the BR out.

I have never done that; in fact, when a BR enters DBT after failing to advance to first on an U3K, I seldom make any signal or announcement. If she decides to come out of the dugout to try to advance to first, then I would say something. But that's never happened to me before.

FWIW, the NCAA rule allows for the ball to be kept live. So does every other organization I've umpired in (baseball-wise) except, I've now learned, ASA and FED softball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

No outs, runner on 3rd, 3-2 count on batter, on the pitch R1 at 3 steals for home, strike 3 is dropped by F2,* R1 sees she will be put out at home runs back to 3rd and gets caught in a run-down, Batter enters the dugout, R1 is then tagged out by F5. How many outs are there? ASA? NFHS?

Fed/ASA - 1 out. Everyone else - 2 outs.

[Manny A]

In reality, though, unless you have a three-man crew, and/or the BR's dugout is on the third base side, who will likely see the sequence of events here?

No outs, runner on 3rd, 3-2 count on batter, on the pitch R1 at 3 steals for home, strike 3 is dropped by F2,* R1 sees she will be put out at home runs back to 3rd and gets caught in a run-down, Batter enters the dugout, R1 is then tagged out by F5.

Both umpires' attention will be on the rundown, looking for the tag, possible obstruction, a possible three-foot violation, etc. Who is going to see the BR enter her dugout at first base and immediately kill play? Good luck with that!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In reality, though, unless you have a three-man crew, and/or the BR's dugout is on the third base side, who will likely see the sequence of events here?

A fair point, and you're probably right. BU should have an eye partially on BR - he's still responsible for possible OBS and the touch at first base. I'd hope that he would notice, at some point, that BR was not where he thought he should be and would then try to peripherally locate him.

But yeah - his primary focus will be on his end of the rundown, so this could get missed.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

A fair point, and you're probably right. BU should have an eye partially on BR - he's still responsible for possible OBS and the touch at first base. I'd hope that he would notice, at some point, that BR was not where he thought he should be and would then try to peripherally locate him.

But yeah - his primary focus will be on his end of the rundown, so this could get missed.

Situations like this are where I disagree with bracketing rundowns in the 2 umpire system. With multiple runners, one umpire has to be responsible for the trailing runners.

In this specific situation, the PU would have the entire rundown between third and home as that is the lead runner and the BU would have the batter-runner.

Communication between the two umpires is the key here.