The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 16, 2014, 08:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 861
INT - How many outs?

R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, no outs.
B3 hits ground ball to F4.
R2 comes to a complete stop approx 40 feet from 2B (perhaps to avoid running into a tag)
As F4 tosses to F6 covering 2B, R2 re-starts running towards 2B.
1B Coach is hollering "Break it Up, Break it Up!"
R2 gets forced out easily, but as F6 attempts the double play at 1B, but R2 who is now about 10 feet from 2B, raises her hands hindering the throw.

Bottom line: A retired runner commits INT (obviously intentionally) for the purpose of preventing a double play.

Can we get three outs here?
1. R2 forced at 2B
2. R1 out [ASA 8.7.P]
3. BR out [ASA 8.7.J.2] ( which I have a problem with the way it is written)

Or... are #2 and #3 mutually exclusive?

What say ye?
__________________
Tony

Last edited by tcannizzo; Sun Mar 16, 2014 at 09:03pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 16, 2014, 10:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 297
No chance for 3 outs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo View Post
R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, no outs.
B3 hits ground ball to F4.
R2 comes to a complete stop approx 40 feet from 2B (perhaps to avoid running into a tag)
As F4 tosses to F6 covering 2B, R2 re-starts running towards 2B.
1B Coach is hollering "Break it Up, Break it Up!"
R2 gets forced out easily, but as F6 attempts the double play at 1B, but R2 who is now about 10 feet from 2B, raises her hands hindering the throw.

Bottom line: A retired runner commits INT (obviously intentionally) for the purpose of preventing a double play.

Can we get three outs here?
1. R2 forced at 2B
2. R1 out [ASA 8.7.P]
3. BR out [ASA 8.7.J.2] ( which I have a problem with the way it is written)

Or... are #2 and #3 mutually exclusive?

What say ye?
In my opinion you could only get a second out if the actions of R2 prevented the defense from getting an out on B3. The way the OP is worded with R1 stopping then starting again I'm having doubts about the ability of the defense to get the second out at 1st base. I have been known to be wrong though.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 16, 2014, 11:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 861
You would HTBT.
So take it literally that there was a reasonable opportunity for a DP.
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 17, 2014, 06:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 763
The runner closest to home would be out if you have interference by a retired runner.
__________________
Kill the Clones. Let God sort them out.
No one likes an OOJ (Over-officious jerk).
Realistic officiating does the sport good.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 17, 2014, 07:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pace, FL
Posts: 653
Send a message via AIM to argodad
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo View Post
R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B, no outs.
B3 hits ground ball to F4.
R2 comes to a complete stop approx 40 feet from 2B (perhaps to avoid running into a tag)
As F4 tosses to F6 covering 2B, R2 re-starts running towards 2B.
1B Coach is hollering "Break it Up, Break it Up!"
R2 gets forced out easily, but as F6 attempts the double play at 1B, but R2 who is now about 10 feet from 2B, raises her hands hindering the throw.

Bottom line: A retired runner commits INT (obviously intentionally) for the purpose of preventing a double play.

Can we get three outs here?
1. R2 forced at 2B
2. R1 out [ASA 8.7.P]
3. BR out [ASA 8.7.J.2] ( which I have a problem with the way it is written)

Or... are #2 and #3 mutually exclusive?

What say ye?
I say you get two. R2 on the force and R1 on INT by a retired runner.
__________________
Larry
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 18, 2014, 12:59pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,377
Why do you have a problem with the way 8-7-J-2 is written? It seems pretty clear to me what it intends to cover.

Example: R1 at second, two outs. Sharp ground ball to F6, and R1 moves to run behind F6 heading for third. As F6 comes up to throw to first base, R1 veers slighty and bumps F6 just as F6 tries to release the ball.

You cannot use this rule in your situation, since the runner was retired when she interfered.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 21, 2014, 09:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 861
Sorry for the delay was out of town for a few days with no computer.

Ya know what? Yes, I wrote that I did not like the way the rule was written, and in going back and reading it, I can't for the life of me remember bothered me about it. Probably just that it disallows the third out.

And yes, it is crystal clear in disallowing a third out as posed in the OP - and explaining why.

So, now I know.
Thanks
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 21, 2014, 04:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo View Post
Sorry for the delay was out of town for a few days with no computer.

Ya know what? Yes, I wrote that I did not like the way the rule was written, and in going back and reading it, I can't for the life of me remember bothered me about it. Probably just that it disallows the third out.

And yes, it is crystal clear in disallowing a third out as posed in the OP - and explaining why.

So, now I know.
Thanks
Still have some ice on the brain, probably
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 21, 2014, 07:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 861
Now being mixed with bourbon.
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How many outs? SRW Softball 5 Tue Jun 03, 2008 01:14am
2 outs B or C?? tibear Baseball 26 Fri May 18, 2007 12:53pm
outs mccann Softball 4 Wed May 18, 2005 08:19pm
4th outs rhsc Softball 2 Sun Apr 17, 2005 08:06pm
How many strike outs before three outs? WindyCityBlue Baseball 10 Thu Jul 29, 2004 08:00am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1