flex batting in 10th spot

[jodibuck]

This play occurred in an game played by NCAA rules. DP listed in 3rd spot on line-up card, flex properly listed in 10th spot. Coach came from travel ball and used the flex as an additional batter (EH). DP bats in her proper spot, then flex bats in the 10th spot. The flex gets a hit and scores on a hit by the lead-off batter. The defense appeals after the DP bats later in the inning. Does the run scored by the flex count? Is the flex now considered an illegal player? Do we have anything?

[shagpal]

did the defense appeal during the DP's at bat, or immediately after the DP's at bat? or had a pitch been thrown to a succeeding batter? if so, did the DP safely get on base?

Originally Posted by jodibuck

This play occurred in an game played by NCAA rules. DP listed in 3rd spot on line-up card, flex properly listed in 10th spot. Coach came from travel ball and used the flex as an additional batter (EH). DP bats in her proper spot, then flex bats in the 10th spot. The flex gets a hit and scores on a hit by the lead-off batter. The defense appeals after the DP bats later in the inning. Does the run scored by the flex count? Is the flex now considered an illegal player? Do we have anything?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jodibuck

This play occurred in an game played by NCAA rules. DP listed in 3rd spot on line-up card, flex properly listed in 10th spot. Coach came from travel ball and used the flex as an additional batter (EH). DP bats in her proper spot, then flex bats in the 10th spot. The flex gets a hit and scores on a hit by the lead-off batter. The defense appeals after the DP bats later in the inning. Does the run scored by the flex count? Is the flex now considered an illegal player? Do we have anything?

Anything the FLEX or any other improper batter does stands if another pitch has been thrown. What did they appeal?

[Andy]

Since the FLEX can only legally bat for the DP in the #3 slot, what we have here is a violation of 8.3.4.1.6, the FLEX entering the game on offense in a batting-order position other than that of the DP....the FLEX batted in place of the #1 batter.

If this is what was appealed, it can be appealed at any time. Since it was brought to the attention of the Plate Umpire by the defense and others have batted, the rulebook situtation is 8.3.4.2.3 (c). The penalty is that the illegal player is to be declared out if she is still on base and ejected. Since she was not on base at the time of the appeal, she is ejected, but all other play stands.

Batting out of order is still a possibility here...the answer to Shagpal's questions would determine that.

[MD Longhorn]

No, we have batting out of order not appealed in time.

There is no 10 spot.

If the Flex bats, it's for the DP. Always.

When #1 was due, Flex batted in place of the DP, but did it out of order. No appeal - when #1 takes a pitch, Flex's AB is legal.

#4 is now due to bat (the player after the DP), but #1 is batting. #1 completes their AB. No appeal. When #2 takes a pitch, #1's at bat is legal. And now, #2 is batting in the proper position.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No, we have batting out of order not appealed in time.

Based on the information given, I disagree.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There is no 10 spot.

If the Flex bats, it's for the DP. Always.

Again, I disagree. The DP spot is the only legal place in the batting order for the FLEX to bat, but the FLEX can certainly show up to bat anywhere (as in the OP).

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

When #1 was due, Flex batted in place of the DP, but did it out of order.

Unless the coach announced FLEX was batting for DP, you cannot assume that was his intent. In fact, the OP makes it clear that was NOT his intent. The coach was confusing FLEX with EP. This is an illegal player, and FLEX is ejected (NCAA 8.2.3 EFFECT).

If this was ASA, the ruling would be similar. An illegal player. ASA 4-3-I, ASA Case Play 4.7-3.

[MD Longhorn]

When the flex approaches the plate to bat in the DP's normal spot, are you requiring the coach to come tell you that they are batting the flex for the DP? No. When the flex comes to bat ... it is for the DP.

We have an illegal player when the DP and flex are in the game at the same time. Doesn't sound to be the case here as the flex scored on the 1st batter after her.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Here is a similar/related Approved Ruling from Ask Dee.

A.R.8.3.4^2: The Flex bats in a spot in the batting order other than the DP’s spot and before the next pitch, the defense appeals to the umpire for a batting out-of-order violation. They are correct in that the previous batter is not the correct batter but she is an illegal player, not a legal player guilty of batting out-of-order. Should the umpire act on the appealed batting out-of-order or enforce the penalty for illegal player?
RULING: A coach making an appeal must reasonably identify the rule violation in question. While not required to identify the rule by number or page, the player and terminology for the rule in question have to be correctly communicated to the umpire. To avoid miscommunication, the plate umpire should show the defensive coach the lineup card and have him/her walk through the complaint giving the coach every opportunity to see the mistake and better articulate the appeal. In the unlikely event that the coach still only appeals batting out-of-order, the plate umpire shall enforce the effect for the appealed batting out-of-order. (See also Rule 11.10.)

The point being that we cannot assume the FLEX batting was intended as an unreported sub for the DP and batting-out-of-order. To make that assumption basically makes the rule declaring the violation (FLEX entering on offense for someone other than DP) an illegal player an impossible occurrence. Now, if the coach reported FLEX playing offense for DP, and THEN the FLEX batted-out-of-order, sure, that's all it is.

In the case of the OP, if they are appealing an illegal player, they have one; and Andy's cite is spot on. If they are appealing batting-out-of-order, then we need more specific information regarding the time of appeal, etc.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No, we have batting out of order not appealed in time.

There is no 10 spot.

If the Flex bats, it's for the DP. Always.

When #1 was due, Flex batted in place of the DP, but did it out of order. No appeal - when #1 takes a pitch, Flex's AB is legal.

#4 is now due to bat (the player after the DP), but #1 is batting. #1 completes their AB. No appeal. When #2 takes a pitch, #1's at bat is legal. And now, #2 is batting in the proper position.

Mike....is your reply based on NCAA rules?
I'm assuming that it is but wanted to make sure.
I'm just trying to properly follow your take on the sitch vs. Andy's, Steve's and Cecil's.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Mike....is your reply based on NCAA rules?
I'm assuming that it is but wanted to make sure.
I'm just trying to properly follow your take on the sitch vs. Andy's, Steve's and Cecil's.

It was not. I can't read. I sit corrected.

I'll shut up now.