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FLEX batting
Need help on this one -- came up in our preseason meetings
Federation rules -- after the #9 batter completes her at bat, the FLEX comes up to bat and takes a pitch before detection. Is the FLEX now in the game as an illegal sub on offense for the #1 hitter, thereby necessitating RE-ENTRY if the #1 hitter is put in to cure the problem? |
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Is the #1 hitter the DP? Remember, the FLEX can only bat for the DP.
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We see with our eyes. Fans and parents see with their hearts. |
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I had this happen on my DD's middle school team while I was scoring. The Flex saw her name in the #10 slot on the dugout lineup and didn't realize that she wasn't supposed to bat (I think once the coaches understand DP/Flex, that they out to spend at least 10 minutes explaining it to the players). Anyway, she was late getting out to the on-deck circle, so by the time I saw what she was doing and got the coach's attention in the 3B coaches box to tell her that her flex was batting, she was next to the plate and a pitch was on the way which was hit and the batter was out.
The other team's scorekeeper apparently didn't understand what had happened. My understanding that the batter would be out as soon as detected after taking a pitch but before her turn at bat is resolved. What would happen if she hits fairly and gets on base I'm still muddy on. And/or any additional penalties on the batter or coach (ejection?)
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Just Tryin' to Learn... |
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If the #1 batter is the DP, this is an unreported substitute, and a team warning will be issued, with the next offending player being restricted to the bench (NFHS 3-6-7 PENALTY).
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Tom Last edited by Dakota; Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 08:55am. |
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Tom |
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Clarification of above
To clarify my initial scenario -- the #1 hitter is not the DP -- that would be too easy
My main question is -- since we have an offensive sub for the #1 hitter, albeit an illegal one, does the #1 hitter have to burn her re-entry if she comes back in the game? Seems most folks are saying yes |
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Tom |
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The restriction is occasionally overlooked because it is listed separately for all subsections of Article 2; but an illegal sub remains illegal whenever she is discovered, and must always be restricted and replaced with a legal sub.
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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Steve, I referred to my earlier post where I stated she was restricted.
Also, I disagree that both BOO and illegal sub occurred, since they are mutually exclusive in the situation of the FLEX batting for a non-DP. It is not considered a sub for the DP, but batting out of order. It is considered an illegal sub for the #1 batter, batting in the correct order.
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Tom Last edited by Dakota; Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:38am. |
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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As to disagreeing, I misread your post; I think you might, in retrospect see how it might be misconstrued. When you said no other penalties other than as in post above, I simply referred to your statement in the same post, but above this statement. In there, you simply called the player out and play nullified. Finally, to all: The language that BOO is superceded appears in the 2005 NFHS rulebook Penalty to 3-4-2b. At some point, the argument that an illegal sub other than FLEX batting in the nonexistent 10th position can be considered BOO; again, I was rushed, threw out my first answer from an older reference without full research. It also seemed to try to explain my reading that BOO is superceded. My apologies; I did make many of you think further!! To the original, singular question in the OP; in all cases of an illegal sub, the original player has left the game, and must reenter, or else another legal sub must be used.
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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Tom |
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Just remembered the reason for "supercedes" language.
A noted rules person argued at one time that we could consider the FLEX batting in an incorrect position (other than the DP's) as 1) an unreported sub (remember the language that the FLEX batting for the DP in not a substitution?? Therefore, did not need to be reported??) who then bats out of order. This would effectively eliminate the restriction (ejection in ASA). For several years, the language was added to make sure 3-4-2 was applied, not BOO. Now, the rule 3-3-6g points to 3-4 for penalty (did not previously).
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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