7th/10th foul

DJ · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 09:46am

It would be nice to have a procedural change for bench personal to be allowed to put a 7 on the score board after the 6th foul has been addressed and a 10 on the score board after the 9th foul has been addressed so when we as officials look up at the score board we don't have to look up and see a 6 or 9 and wonder if this is the foul that just occured posted up there or the previous foul. For our purposes the only one's that really matter are the 7th and the 10th. The other fouls are a mute point. Last night the bench did not tell us it was the 10th nor was it posted and so we administered a one and one and then ended up having a correctable error which is no big deal but it would be nice to look at the clock and see the numbers up there that are significant. Many times when I see a 6 or nine I question if it is the 7th or the 10th but when I see a 7 or a 10 on the board I know exactly what my next move should be. I think this procedural change would not have any affect on the game other than to make our job a little easier.

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 09:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
It would be nice to have a procedural change for bench personal to be allowed to put a 7 on the score board after the 6th foul has been addressed and a 10 on the score board after the 9th foul has been addressed so when we as officials look up at the score board we don't have to look up and see a 6 or 9 and wonder if this is the foul that just occured posted up there or the previous foul.

DJ, wouldn't you just wonder if this was really the 7th foul, or if it was the next one?

DJ · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 10:24am

Chuck you are missing the point that being what do we care if it is the next one? I only care about the 7th and the 10th. So let me know as soon as possible when these important milestones have been reached. Explain to me why this is not a good idea!

cmckenna · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 10:27am

I think what you are saying is don't put up any numbers except 7 and 10... Am I right???

To be honest I don't trust the scoreboards to begin with and try to keep track in my head and rely on the book to let me know when we are in the bonuses....

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Chuck you are missing the point that being what do we care if it is the next one? I only care about the 7th and the 10th.

I guess I am missing the point. Are you saying that if there's a 7 on the board before the 7th foul is committed, then you'll know that the next foul is 1-and-1; but if there's a 6 on the board, you won't know that the next foul is 1-and-1?

Quote:

So let me know as soon as possible when these important milestones have been reached.

But your suggestion is to post it before it's been reached.

If the 7 is posted immediately after the 6th foul is committed, don't you think that will be just as confusing?

Rich · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
Chuck you are missing the point that being what do we care if it is the next one? I only care about the 7th and the 10th.

I guess I am missing the point. Are you saying that if there's a 7 on the board before the 7th foul is committed, then you'll know that the next foul is 1-and-1; but if there's a 6 on the board, you won't know that the next foul is 1-and-1?

Quote:

So let me know as soon as possible when these important milestones have been reached.

But your suggestion is to post it before it's been reached.

If the 7 is posted immediately after the 6th foul is committed, don't you think that will be just as confusing?

Let's make the problem with this clearer with a scenario.

Team B commits a common foul. It is the sixth foul. I report, we get back in position. I glance up at the scoreboard and the timer has put a 7 on the board for Team B fouls.

At this point I'm likely to stop proceedings and head to the table to sort out whether we should be shooting.

Better procedure: Know when teams are nearing the bonus and on SIX communicate to your partners to let them know that the NEXT one will start bonus free throws. We usually do it with a quick index finger/pinky signal to each other before putting the ball in play.

--Rich

PS - It's MOOT point.

footlocker · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 10:56am

This is really goofy. Rich has it exactly right. Pay attention through out the game and you'll be expecting the one and one. Then when you call the seventh foul you can look real sharp by pointing to the offended player and yelling to your partner, that's my shooter. Plus, I love signaling one-and-one to the table before the scorer can indicate it to me. It shows everyone that I know what is going on. And I do.

By the way, ever see the single red lighted circle for the one-and-one and the two red lighted circles for the double bonus. It exists and is the same thing that you are proposing. Still the best solution is to train yourself to pay attention.

DJ · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 11:23am

I also think it would be good procedure to put the bonus lights on after the 6th foul and the ball has been inbounded so again a quick glance and everyone in the gym will know the procedure for the 7th foul.

rainmaker · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 11:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
I also think it would be good procedure to put the bonus lights on after the 6th foul and the ball has been inbounded so again a quick glance and everyone in the gym will know the procedure for the 7th foul.

I see your point, DJ, but I think this would be more confusing. If the foul count says 6, but the bonus light is shining, people would think there had been an error. The best thing is to do what Rich suggests and communicate with your partner that THE NEXT foul will be the bonus.

What I'm trying to work on this year, is keeping track of EVERYTHING. As soon as an AP ball is passed inbounds, check the arrow. When I chop in the clock, be sure it's running. Keep close track of the score. Check the board after every foul. I don't feel I need to REMEMBER everything, just see to it that the board is changed for each item. It's tricky!! but it sure cuts down on problems.

eyezen · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 11:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
I also think it would be good procedure to put the bonus lights on after the 6th foul and the ball has been inbounded so again a quick glance and everyone in the gym will know the procedure for the 7th foul.

Thats how the table I run works. After the sixth foul is reported, once the ball is handed to the inbounder or if shooting the ball is given to shooter on the second ft the bonus light goes on to indicate we are know in the bonus situation.

Of course we run a tight ship and as such your original situation never happens. No sooner than you report the foul and look up on the scoreboard you will see the correct number of team fouls.

We would never put up 7 fouls when only six have been committed. Thats what the bonus light is for, to indicate when the bonus situation is in effect.

Most officials that come to our school love working there because they know they will never have table problems.

Of course having a math teacher that been doing the book for 26 years and a registered official on the clock helps :-)

rainmaker · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 11:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by eyezen
Most officials that come to our school love working there because they know they will never have table problems.

Of course having a math teacher that been doing the book for 26 years and a registered official on the clock helps :-)[/B]

Do you sell clones?

eyezen · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by eyezen
Most officials that come to our school love working there because they know they will never have table problems.

Of course having a math teacher that been doing the book for 26 years and a registered official on the clock helps :-)

Do you sell clones? [/B]

Hehe...the might have to soon. The book guy will be retiring soon and I hope to expand my referee schedule next year. Only booking the table for Friday night 10/V boys home games next year.

footlocker · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:02pm

In defense of DJ, I have had the situation where a seemingly competent scorer puts the foul up before I report it. While I am walking over, I see the fouls are at 6 (jsut got to six). I end up signaling the one-and-one, and then get corrected by the table. I feel stupid because I shouldbe keeping track but I wish every table would hold posting anything until I have reported everything.

TPS2859 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:07pm

I see what you are saying DJ, but it all goes back to having trust at the table. Before a game I will make it a point to talk to the table and address what you are talking about. NOT to let us inbound that ball on a one and one. Give us a horn if need be. I find this only to be a problem in schools that the fouls are not posted so my partners and I can see them on the score board. (cheep score boards)

eyezen · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 18, 2004, 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by footlocker
In defense of DJ, I have had the situation where a seemingly competent scorer puts the foul up before I report it. While I am walking over, I see the fouls are at 6 (jsut got to six). I end up signaling the one-and-one, and then get corrected by the table. I feel stupid because I shouldbe keeping track but I wish every table would hold posting anything until I have reported everything.

I'm not saying we do that...I'm just saying we run a quick board to help the officials because we know what we're doing.

We even buzz subs in too ;-)