Team throws at PU

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shagpal

that twirling hand gesture can also mean "same play", as in "infield fly" AGAIN. we used to use that in slowpitch, but haven't much since working fastpitch.

Possibly, but highly unlikely given the timing of when the gesture was given. It happened right when someone asked where the pitch was.

And frankly, I've never seen that taught as a signal to partners, neither in baseball nor softball. Sure, it could have been something worked out at pregame. But giving it in the middle of a defensive conference, and right after the question from the stands? It clearly was perceived as an answer to that question.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Possibly, but highly unlikely given the timing of when the gesture was given. It happened right when someone asked where the pitch was.

And frankly, I've never seen that taught as a signal to partners, neither in baseball nor softball. Sure, it could have been something worked out at pregame. But giving it in the middle of a defensive conference, and right after the question from the stands? It clearly was perceived as an answer to that question.

Don't think it was possible it could have been anything but a response to the AA behind the backstop.

Then again, I've never heard of such a signal. Maybe we should just move to ASL for everything we do

[shagpal]

this may have been taught by that south african sign language interpeter during obamas speech at the mandela wake.

the twirling finger means what? screw you? or would that be the middle finger?

what is the correct way? please Irish, inquiring minds want to know.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't think it was possible it could have been anything but a response to the AA behind the backstop.

Then again, I've never heard of such a signal. Maybe we should just move to ASL for everything we do

[Paul L]

My association's softball trainer uses that downpointing circle signal to remind BU that the bases are now loaded and that PU ain't going anywhere. I think his using it just after a spectator hectoring question was only coincidence.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Paul L

My association's softball trainer uses that downpointing circle signal to remind BU that the bases are now loaded and that PU ain't going anywhere.

Since when (in softball anyway) does the PU not go anywhere with the bases loaded?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Since when (in softball anyway) does the PU not go anywhere with the bases loaded?

Oh, I don't know... I've had partners like that!

(But, then, they didn't go anywhere any other time, either!)

[Tru_in_Blu]

I only watched the short clip that was posted. After ball four with the bases loaded, the PU never removed his mask to watch the runner touch home.

I saw the coach approach from the 3rd base side, but at no time did I see the PU call time. Can't tell if he was asked for time or not.

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I don't know how many of those things would be considered mandatory or perhaps the informality of the game lent it to be that way.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by shagpal

that twirling hand gesture can also mean "same play", as in "infield fly" AGAIN. we used to use that in slowpitch, but haven't much since working fastpitch.

[shagpal]

it must be for you the middle finger.

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

the twirling finger means what? screw you? or would that be the middle finger?
what is the correct way? please Irish, inquiring minds want to know.

I would show you, but my ASL doesn't translate well on line

[shagpal]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would show you, but my ASL doesn't translate well on line

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants.

I that true in all codes?
I still call "play" after a time out and some dead ball situations.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".

It's a timing thing. When you visibly put the ball in play, doesn't it happen a second or two after the pitcher steps on the plate? You don't do it simultaneously to when she does, do you? So, technically, the violation occurred before you had the opportunity to put it in play, did it not?

The norm around here is to physically put the ball in play at the beginning of the game, and hardly ever after that. It took me a while to get used to that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.

Just worry about stopping the pitcher from starting early or prior to a batter being set. Most folks on the field are often in a similar rhythm and it is often unnecessary. More likely an issue in SP, but do you hear umpires directing teams to play on every pitch since the ball is always dead at the end of the previous play or pitch?

If they are waiting on it or you have something that calls for the umpire to direct the teams to play, tell them to play. Otherwise, only worry about it when you need to worry about it.