Team throws at PU

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by shagpal

are you suggesting that you think he was not trained based upon viewing this video?

when have you ever seen a college coach wearing shorts while coaching a game?

Im wondering if he has had any training because in the full game video I noticed the head movement while tracking pitches and indicator in right hand. Those things would be corrected at any baseball umpire clinic. I think somewhere they say that this was a showcase for aspiring college players so that's why I presumed a college level game.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Im wondering if he has had any training because in the full game video I noticed the head movement while tracking pitches and indicator in right hand. Those things would be corrected at any baseball umpire clinic. I think somewhere they say that this was a showcase for aspiring college players so that's why I presumed a college level game.

Page 238 of the ASA umpire manual

"The umpire then tracks the ball from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's glove or to the ground. Tracking the ball is the act of watching the ball from the pitcher's hand into the catcher's glove using a slight movement of the head guided by the nose. Tracking is not an exaggerated head movement or just an eye movement. It is a movement of the nose which simultaneously brings the head with the pitch as the eyes are locked on the ball."

As for the indicator, maybe he is left handed, maybe he has a physical disability with his left hand which makes it difficult to operate the indicator, who knows. I know a guy who umpires who does not have a left hand. Does being physically unable to hold or operate an indicator with the left hand preclude a person from being able to umpire? Bottom line is, what difference does it make if he was tracking the ball with his head, or if he had the indicator in his right hand to being purposely plunked with the ball?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Page 238 of the ASA umpire manual

"The umpire then tracks the ball from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's glove or to the ground. Tracking the ball is the act of watching the ball from the pitcher's hand into the catcher's glove using a slight movement of the head guided by the nose. Tracking is not an exaggerated head movement or just an eye movement. It is a movement of the nose which simultaneously brings the head with the pitch as the eyes are locked on the ball."

As for the indicator, maybe he is left handed, maybe he has a physical disability with his left hand which makes it difficult to operate the indicator, who knows. I know a guy who umpires who does not have a left hand. Does being physically unable to hold or operate an indicator with the left hand preclude a person from being able to umpire? Bottom line is, what difference does it make if he was tracking the ball with his head, or if he had the indicator in his right hand to being purposely plunked with the ball?

That explains it then. Softball is different. Anyway, there is no justification for what happened and I look forward to hearing of severe ramifications.

[Skahtboi]

Here are some articles that were posted at UmpiringSoftball.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...all-on-purpose

http://larrybrownsports.com/softball...e-video/212975

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/coac...softball-game/

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Here are some articles that were posted at UmpiringSoftball.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...all-on-purpose

http://larrybrownsports.com/softball...e-video/212975

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/coac...softball-game/

all three pages seem to be dead...

[RKBUmp]

Something appears to have happened when the links were copied over. Try these, I can still get into them.

Softball Game Ends After Umpire Is Plunked with Ball on Purpose | Bleacher Report

Softball team organizes play to intentionally hit umpire in face with pitch (Video) | Larry Brown Sports

Coach draws up a cheap shot for umpire during softball game | For The Win

[Tru_in_Blu]

I only watched the short clip that was posted. After ball four with the bases loaded, the PU never removed his mask to watch the runner touch home.

I saw the coach approach from the 3rd base side, but at no time did I see the PU call time. Can't tell if he was asked for time or not.

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I don't know how many of those things would be considered mandatory or perhaps the informality of the game lent it to be that way.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants.

I that true in all codes?
I still call "play" after a time out and some dead ball situations.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If yes above, then the pitcher stepping on when all else is ready, would seem to be "when the situation warrants".

It's a timing thing. When you visibly put the ball in play, doesn't it happen a second or two after the pitcher steps on the plate? You don't do it simultaneously to when she does, do you? So, technically, the violation occurred before you had the opportunity to put it in play, did it not?

The norm around here is to physically put the ball in play at the beginning of the game, and hardly ever after that. It took me a while to get used to that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I used to do this each and every time after play was killed...back in my baseball days anyway. When I started umpiring softball, I was told, despite what the books say, that it was essentially unnecessary to do this.

Kinda makes sense. In baseball where runners lead off, the ball must be visibly put back into play so that everyone knows a runner off the base is now in danger to be picked off. Also, appeals require the ball to be put into play (at least in those baseball organizations where deadball appeals don't exist). And pitchers cannot balk during a dead ball, so there are no violations until the plate umpire calls play. Don't have to worry about that in softball.

In softball, I've been told that play is assumed to be live when the situation warrants. I've sometimes wondered what would happen when a pitcher violates the illegal pitch rule before that assumption. For example, after time was called, the pitcher steps on the plate with hands joined, and then separates them before looking in for the signal. Should we ignore that?

I certainly would call the IP if time hadn't been called beforehand. But I ignore the "violation" when it happens at a point where, if I were to visibly call/signal play, I would not have done so yet. It certainly would be less of a issue if I did signal all the time.

Just worry about stopping the pitcher from starting early or prior to a batter being set. Most folks on the field are often in a similar rhythm and it is often unnecessary. More likely an issue in SP, but do you hear umpires directing teams to play on every pitch since the ball is always dead at the end of the previous play or pitch?

If they are waiting on it or you have something that calls for the umpire to direct the teams to play, tell them to play. Otherwise, only worry about it when you need to worry about it.

[bniu]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I saw the coach approach from the 3rd base side, but at no time did I see the PU call time. Can't tell if he was asked for time or not.

And once players returned to their positions ready to resume play, I didn't see PU make a beconing motion to the pitcher putting the ball in play again.

I don't know how many of those things would be considered mandatory or perhaps the informality of the game lent it to be that way.

Depending on the situation, there's been plenty of times I've simply acknowledged a coach with a simple hand gesture or a simple nod when they ask for time and then they go do their meeting.

If a team stoops low enough to plunk me like that, coach, catcher and pitcher are gone. Doesn't matter if the coach knew about it or not, coach is fully responsible for the conduct of their players, and some bush league stuff like that is going to get them tossed. I've got no problems giving a catcher feedback on a pitch if they ask for it. Once I had a catcher frame a pitch off the plate and when she asked what was wrong with it, I told her she wasn't even framing it in the strike zone. Got a nice chuckle out of her. I'm also known for having a pretty liberal strike zone so few pitchers get pissed off at me, except when they're batting (but at least they know to expect the big zone...)

[teebob21]

It's already been said, but if I'm on the dish for this one, I'm tossing pitcher, catcher, and head coach. Next stop is an immediate chat with the tournament director and my UIC/tourney assigner.

I've been thrown *at* in a men's Class C FP game, but it was outside and two feet over my head. Completely different world, though, the men's game.

The mechanics are critiquable (a word?) but not absolutely terrible. There are only two pitches on the short video, but he locked in decently and was in the slot. Yes, the indicator is in the right-hand, but as is pointed out, there looks like there is something wrong with his left. I think his main mistake was allowing the defensive conference to go on as long as it did. I would have been moseying out to the mound long before that broke up.

If the coach is so hot under the collar that he's telling the pitcher to drill me, he's probably pissed enough to say a Magic Word when I break up his fiesta on the mound. Plus, if I overhear the instructions to hit me en route to the mound, he's definitely gone. Catcher might think twice about bailing out on me after I just cranked the head coach.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by teebob21

...I've been thrown *at* in a men's Class C FP game, but it was outside and two feet over my head. Completely different world, though, the men's game....

While I agree that the Men's game is a different animal, are you saying that you would not eject the pitcher and catcher (at minimum) if this same scenario played out in a Men's game?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Im wondering if he has had any training because in the full game video I noticed the head movement while tracking pitches and indicator in right hand. Those things would be corrected at any baseball umpire clinic. I think somewhere they say that this was a showcase for aspiring college players so that's why I presumed a college level game.

He's obviously had softball training, since we get to uncorrect what tracking mechanics baseball umpire clinics screw up on softball umpires. It isn't physically possible to actually track a pitch all the way without moving the head; it's a shame that baseball is so focused on not moving the head that it forces their umpires to lose focus on the ball.