Rules Trivia

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Manny ... I'll ask another question. Say, after the overslide, the runner was contacted by a fielder and obstructed in some way. Would you say that runner was obstructed between 2nd and 3rd? Or between 1st and 2nd?

The runner is obviously not on 2nd. The runner is obviously not between 2nd and 3rd. So ... where is the runner? Very plainly (and obviously, to most of us) between 1st and 2nd. And due to the existence of a BR at 1st, the runner is, by rule, forced to advance to 2nd.

I'm actually with you on this. In my opinion, runner who runs (and therefore slides) past second is retreating toward first if she's any where to the right field side of second base. But I just don't buy your arguments on this point for the reason of the example I posted above:

Bases loaded shot to shallow outfield. Center takes the ball to second where she just misses getting a sliding R3. Without calling time R3 decides to get up and as she does F6 tags her while she is standing just off the bag between first and second. Are you really not counting that run?

That runner is between 1st and 2nd. If she gets obstructed while standing there and before being tagged (maybe F4 was planning to cover the base too and can't hold up), then she was obstructed between 1st and 2nd. She's closer to 1st than to third. Etc. I think you have to get there by defining retreat to mean something that does not mean intentionally trying to return. I think if you are intentionally running the bases backwards, when you pass a base you are now retreating toward the prior base absent something really strange happening.

[MD Longhorn]

There is no "intentionally" in any of this.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The runner is obviously not on 2nd.

Why not? If a runner overruns first base, she is still considered to be at first. If she turns at a 90-degree angle into foul territory after touching first, are you suggesting she's no longer at first, but instead she's now between home and first?

There's nothing in the rules that states a runner cannot overrun other bases. If she does, she's simply susceptible to being tagged out, unlike the case at first. The question is: Is she really between bases when she overruns a base but makes no move in the direction of another base?

Take this as an extreme example: Runner from first overruns second, and peels to the right towards center field. What's her status? Is she between first and second, or second and third? Or is she still at second, and just put herself at risk for being tagged out?

Or take your OP, but she tries to do a headfirst hook slide on the left-center field side of the bag (because the throw is coming from F9), and she goes beyond the bag such that her body is left of the extended line between third and second. Is she now considered between second and first?

To address IM's question, I'm not justifying any belief. I just think there's a gap in the rule that covers this specific situation. If the overrun/overslide takes a runner towards another base, that's a no-brainer. I'm just asking what happens when the overrun/overslide goes away from any base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why not? If a runner overruns first base, she is still considered to be at first.

Do I really need to walk you through what's different at first base than at 2nd or 3rd? I don't think I do - you're an umpire. This is silly.

If she turns at a 90-degree angle into foul territory after touching first, are you suggesting she's no longer at first, but instead she's now between home and first?

Yawn. I think we've ventured into the "arguing for the sake of arguing" stage. You've been told the right way to rule this (and no, I don't mean by me). What you decide to do with it is up to you.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

ASA - Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter hits into the outfield, and it falls fair in deep left. The runner from 3rd scores easily. The runner from 1st rounds 2nd, but as the throw is coming in, she realizes she missed the bag. She turns around and slides into 2nd, but she overslides and ends up on the other side of the base (between 1st and 2nd). She is tagged by the 2B. Count the run?

I don't have R1 retreating to 1B as she is sliding into 2B. If she were retreating, she would be upright touching 2B trying to get back to 1B, therefore I don't have the force re-instated. By sliding over 2B, she has corrected her missed base and thus removed the right to appeal the missed base. By her sliding past 2B, I have her in jeopardy to being put out for being off of 2B. Because this is now a timing play, score the run, end of half-inning.

Please correct me if my thinking is not correct.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

I don't have R1 retreating to 1B as she is sliding into 2B. If she were retreating, she would be upright touching 2B trying to get back to 1B, therefore I don't have the force re-instated. By sliding over 2B, she has corrected her missed base and thus removed the right to appeal the missed base. By her sliding past 2B, I have her in jeopardy to being put out for being off of 2B. Because this is now a timing play, score the run, end of half-inning.

Please correct me if my thinking is not correct.

Your thinking is not correct. Please see Irish's post. This one was easy and you two have given me tired-head. (No offense!). Frankly, if you're not going to believe Irish on something, there are literally no words I could say to convince you.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Your thinking is not correct. Please see Irish's post. This one was easy and you two have given me tired-head. (No offense!). Frankly, if you're not going to believe Irish on something, there are literally no words I could say to convince you.

I will check my ASA rulebook when I get home. Still trying to learn ASA rule differences. Hope your head gets to feeling better.