Rules Trivia

[MD Longhorn]

ASA - Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter hits into the outfield, and it falls fair in deep left. The runner from 3rd scores easily. The runner from 1st rounds 2nd, but as the throw is coming in, she realizes she missed the bag. She turns around and slides into 2nd, but she overslides and ends up on the other side of the base (between 1st and 2nd). She is tagged by the 2B. Count the run?

(This one is good, as the place where this was posted has umpires on both sides of the argument)

[tcannizzo]

So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

He already asked the question, he wants the answer.

I haven't looked at an ASA rulebook in years. If memory serves, the force is reinstated and the run wouldn't count.

$0.02

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

Yep.

[MD Longhorn]

I have no run as well. Several umpires who usually get them right on that site are scoring the run.

[RKBUmp]

Retreating from the base to which the runner was forced reinstates the force out. I would go with no run scoring.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

...

(This one is good, as the place where this was posted has umpires on both sides of the argument)

Others have given the ASA ruling.
What place is this? TiA

[bsnalex]

my call is you have a stupid base runner. should just carry on and pray to the old gods that defense doesn't appeal!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by bsnalex

my call is you have a stupid base runner. should just carry on and pray to the old gods that defense doesn't appeal!

This is not an appeal play. Runner was tagged out, while off the bag (if I read right).
As the third out is made, plate umpire should immediately and emphatically wave off the run.

[grounder]

ok..here we go....i dont have her retreating to first base. i have her retreating to second base and oversliding it making this a timing play. score the run..
if the runner rounds second base, stops and then rerounds(is that a word?) second base and heads toward first base, thinking perhaps that she missed first base, and then gets put out i would have a reinstated force and the run would not count

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I have no run as well. Several umpires who usually get them right on that site are scoring the run.

I'm kinda curious why. Perhaps they feel that a runner who overslides the bag going back to second really isn't between first and second?

I envision this runner ending up past the bag but still in the line extended between third and second. IOW, her slide took her towards right-center field. Would you really consider that "between first and second"?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by grounder

ok..here we go....i dont have her retreating to first base. i have her retreating to second base and oversliding it making this a timing play. score the run..
if the runner rounds second base, stops and then rerounds(is that a word?) second base and heads toward first base, thinking perhaps that she missed first base, and then gets put out i would have a reinstated force and the run would not count

But, in doing so basically runs "past" second base by over sliding which puts her back between 1st and 2nd base. This would reinstate the force and since she is put out before regaining second base you now have a force out and no run can score.

[grounder]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I'm kinda curious why. Perhaps they feel that a runner who overslides the bag going back to second really isn't between first and second?

I envision this runner ending up past the bag but still in the line extended between third and second. IOW, her slide took her towards right-center field. Would you really consider that "between first and second"?

good point...but even if the runner did end up in the base line of 1st and 2nd id still have a problem considering her slide back into 2nd base an attempt to retreat to first. i know this is a different situation but i think its comparable. a runner overrunning first base isnt always considered an attempt to go to second base but as an umpire we are trained to detect any attempt or motion that we consider an attempt to advance to 2nd and then rule accordingly...i think the same logic should apply to the OP

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by grounder

good point...but even if the runner did end up in the base line of 1st and 2nd id still have a problem considering her slide back into 2nd base an attempt to retreat to first. i know this is a different situation but i think its comparable. a runner overrunning first base isnt always considered an attempt to go to second base but as an umpire we are trained to detect any attempt or motion that we consider an attempt to advance to 2nd and then rule accordingly...i think the same logic should apply to the OP

THE RUNNER IS OUT.
When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base. If the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base first occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner may again be put out if the defense tags the runner or the base to which the runner is forced.

[grounder]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

THE RUNNER IS OUT.
When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base. If the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base first occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner may again be put out if the defense tags the runner or the base to which the runner is forced.

i understand that and would respect your decision rule accordingly if you considered the overslide back to second a retreat to first base. my arguement being an overslide back to second is just that, an overslide to second not an attempt to retreat to first base in most cases..also, if you consider it a retreat, a runner sliding back into second after rounding it is not reallty retreating 'towards' the base first occupied. they are retreating 'towards' right field as manny alluded to