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MD Longhorn Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:01pm

Rules Trivia
 
ASA - Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter hits into the outfield, and it falls fair in deep left. The runner from 3rd scores easily. The runner from 1st rounds 2nd, but as the throw is coming in, she realizes she missed the bag. She turns around and slides into 2nd, but she overslides and ends up on the other side of the base (between 1st and 2nd). She is tagged by the 2B. Count the run?

(This one is good, as the place where this was posted has umpires on both sides of the argument)

tcannizzo Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:17pm

So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

MNBlue Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 898756)
So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

He already asked the question, he wants the answer. :p

I haven't looked at an ASA rulebook in years. If memory serves, the force is reinstated and the run wouldn't count.

$0.02

CecilOne Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 898756)
So, the question is: In ASA is the force reinstated?

Yep.

MD Longhorn Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:58pm

I have no run as well. Several umpires who usually get them right on that site are scoring the run.

RKBUmp Fri Jun 28, 2013 01:02pm

Retreating from the base to which the runner was forced reinstates the force out. I would go with no run scoring.

Crabby_Bob Fri Jun 28, 2013 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 898751)
...

(This one is good, as the place where this was posted has umpires on both sides of the argument)

Others have given the ASA ruling.
What place is this? TiA

bsnalex Sat Jun 29, 2013 03:31am

my call is you have a stupid base runner. should just carry on and pray to the old gods that defense doesn't appeal!

HugoTafurst Sat Jun 29, 2013 05:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsnalex (Post 898817)
my call is you have a stupid base runner. should just carry on and pray to the old gods that defense doesn't appeal!

This is not an appeal play. Runner was tagged out, while off the bag (if I read right).
As the third out is made, plate umpire should immediately and emphatically wave off the run.

grounder Sat Jun 29, 2013 08:28am

ok..here we go....i dont have her retreating to first base. i have her retreating to second base and oversliding it making this a timing play. score the run..
if the runner rounds second base, stops and then rerounds(is that a word?) second base and heads toward first base, thinking perhaps that she missed first base, and then gets put out i would have a reinstated force and the run would not count

Manny A Sat Jun 29, 2013 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 898769)
I have no run as well. Several umpires who usually get them right on that site are scoring the run.

I'm kinda curious why. Perhaps they feel that a runner who overslides the bag going back to second really isn't between first and second?

I envision this runner ending up past the bag but still in the line extended between third and second. IOW, her slide took her towards right-center field. Would you really consider that "between first and second"?

DeputyUICHousto Sat Jun 29, 2013 09:02am

She is retreating to 2nd base...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grounder (Post 898828)
ok..here we go....i dont have her retreating to first base. i have her retreating to second base and oversliding it making this a timing play. score the run..
if the runner rounds second base, stops and then rerounds(is that a word?) second base and heads toward first base, thinking perhaps that she missed first base, and then gets put out i would have a reinstated force and the run would not count

But, in doing so basically runs "past" second base by over sliding which puts her back between 1st and 2nd base. This would reinstate the force and since she is put out before regaining second base you now have a force out and no run can score.

grounder Sat Jun 29, 2013 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 898834)
I'm kinda curious why. Perhaps they feel that a runner who overslides the bag going back to second really isn't between first and second?

I envision this runner ending up past the bag but still in the line extended between third and second. IOW, her slide took her towards right-center field. Would you really consider that "between first and second"?

good point...but even if the runner did end up in the base line of 1st and 2nd id still have a problem considering her slide back into 2nd base an attempt to retreat to first. i know this is a different situation but i think its comparable. a runner overrunning first base isnt always considered an attempt to go to second base but as an umpire we are trained to detect any attempt or motion that we consider an attempt to advance to 2nd and then rule accordingly...i think the same logic should apply to the OP

DeputyUICHousto Sat Jun 29, 2013 09:19am

Straight from the rule book.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grounder (Post 898836)
good point...but even if the runner did end up in the base line of 1st and 2nd id still have a problem considering her slide back into 2nd base an attempt to retreat to first. i know this is a different situation but i think its comparable. a runner overrunning first base isnt always considered an attempt to go to second base but as an umpire we are trained to detect any attempt or motion that we consider an attempt to advance to 2nd and then rule accordingly...i think the same logic should apply to the OP

THE RUNNER IS OUT.
When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base. If the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base first occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner may again be put out if the defense tags the runner or the base to which the runner is forced.

grounder Sat Jun 29, 2013 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto (Post 898839)
THE RUNNER IS OUT.
When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base. If the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base first occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner may again be put out if the defense tags the runner or the base to which the runner is forced.

i understand that and would respect your decision rule accordingly if you considered the overslide back to second a retreat to first base. my arguement being an overslide back to second is just that, an overslide to second not an attempt to retreat to first base in most cases..also, if you consider it a retreat, a runner sliding back into second after rounding it is not reallty retreating 'towards' the base first occupied. they are retreating 'towards' right field as manny alluded to


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