Enter the Marching Band

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Honestly ... I didn't find the comparison that silly, and don't find his outside the box scenario any differently than yours.

As to 10-1 ... if you're willing to trot it out to cover this, I have to worry what else you're using it for. In 21 years, I've used it once ... a car with no driver got somehow put in gear and rolled over the RF fence (and eventually RF before someone caught up with it) while a ball was in play, scaring the crapola out of a bunch of 12 year olds.

And that's about how far outside the box a situation needs to be for you to use that rule.

WOW

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Had a JV game where the fan's from one team were saying "swing!" when other team was batting. Other than that they were simply cheering on their DDs who were losing badly.

Coach for the team who's batter were being told "swing!" by the fans wanted me to tell them they had to stop. She was kinda surprised when I told her no. Then she wanted to know if she could tell them. Told her I could not stop her but I doubted that her talking to them would be a good idea.

Sorry but if you can't play while there is noise going on you have bigger challenges than the noise!

While I agree with you, there's something to be said about fans who do that, especially at a JV game. Frankly, if I were the coach of the team whose fans were being this obnoxious, I would have gone into the stands and told them to knock off the childish crap.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

While I agree with you, there's something to be said about fans who do that, especially at a JV game. Frankly, if I were the coach of the team whose fans were being this obnoxious, I would have gone into the stands and told them to knock off the childish crap.

I don't know about you guys, but the host team is supposed to have an administrator present at all our HS games (JV and V) who should be handling stuff like that.


Having said that, I think back to the days when I was a kid and if you didn't hear,
"heybattanobattaheybattanobatta.....SWING",
you wern't playing ball....

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

While I agree with you, there's something to be said about fans who do that, especially at a JV game. Frankly, if I were the coach of the team whose fans were being this obnoxious, I would have gone into the stands and told them to knock off the childish crap.

For a much more lengthy and sometimes entertaining discussion on this topic....

Calling pitches - by the parents?

[grounder]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Honestly ... I didn't find the comparison that silly, and don't find his outside the box scenario any differently than yours.

As to 10-1 ... if you're willing to trot it out to cover this, I have to worry what else you're using it for. In 21 years, I've used it once ... a car with no driver got somehow put in gear and rolled over the RF fence (and eventually RF before someone caught up with it) while a ball was in play, scaring the crapola out of a bunch of 12 year olds.

And that's about how far outside the box a situation needs to be for you to use that rule.

ok...the 10-1 thing didnt fly with you.....im not looking for a peeing match but i think rule supplement 49-f should eliminate the banging on the buckets.

"the use of artificial noisemakers during championship play is prohibited"

what do you think of that one?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by grounder

ok...the 10-1 thing didnt fly with you.....im not looking for a peeing match but i think rule supplement 49-f should eliminate the banging on the buckets.

"the use of artificial noisemakers during championship play is prohibited"

what do you think of that one?

At last year's gold national, held in OKC, on the grounds of ASA HOF Stadium, a team calling themselves "LA Voodoo" included a player with drum sticks and a "drum set" comprised of buckets (ok, maybe it was one of two buckets, not an entire "set"). While they were at bat, she played the beat and the team sang song/chants. This was well within ear shot of 3 out of 5 of the Deputy Directors of Umpires. Nary a word was said. You knew what field they were on anytime they played.

I believe that in and of itself tell you everything you will need to know.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Andy

For a much more lengthy and sometimes entertaining discussion on this topic....

Calling pitches - by the parents?

Lengthy - agreed
sometimes entertaining - agreed

Thanks for giving me a chuckle and helping me waste a morning.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

At last year's gold national, held in OKC, on the grounds of ASA HOF Stadium, a team calling themselves "LA Voodoo" included a player with drum sticks and a "drum set" comprised of buckets (ok, maybe it was one of two buckets, not an entire "set"). While they were at bat, she played the beat and the team sang song/chants. This was well within ear shot of 3 out of 5 of the Deputy Directors of Umpires. Nary a word was said. You knew what field they were on anytime they played.

I believe that in and of itself tell you everything you will need to know.

Don't be silly

Of course, the artificial noisemaker could be applied to just about anything you want other than vocals.

The entire artificial noise issue rises from using items to make loud or disturbing sounds for the purpose of distracting the opponent or preventing them from communicating and executing plays on the field.

If as a coach you came to me as an umpire and told me he wants to protest the banging ball or buckets, I'm going to allow him to go ahead and protest. I am then going to call my buddy Steve to inform said coach of the free trip he just won

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

At last year's gold national, held in OKC, on the grounds of ASA HOF Stadium, a team calling themselves "LA Voodoo" included a player with drum sticks and a "drum set" comprised of buckets (ok, maybe it was one of two buckets, not an entire "set"). While they were at bat, she played the beat and the team sang song/chants. This was well within ear shot of 3 out of 5 of the Deputy Directors of Umpires. Nary a word was said. You knew what field they were on anytime they played.

I believe that in and of itself tell you everything you will need to know.

OK, I wasn't going to bring it up, but sometime in the last couple months (can't remember exactly when or where - but I do remember the team was dressed in teal, white and black uniforms), the team had a similar situation except they had a few talented girls playing. I'm thinking they must have been part on the marching band during football season.

I enjoyed the hell out of it.

[grounder]

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by grounder

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

I think you've pointed out that artificial noisemakers are prohibited in championship play, based on RS 49 (and I don't have an ASA rule book handy to check). The same prohibition is listed in the ASA Code.

So if you were to not ignore it and put a stop to it, I suppose you would be doing something in line with what is written. But it sounds to me--and as others have alluded--that you would be in the minority here.

[grounder]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I think you've pointed out that artificial noisemakers are prohibited in championship play, based on RS 49 (and I don't have an ASA rule book handy to check). The same prohibition is listed in the ASA Code.

So if you were to not ignore it and put a stop to it, I suppose you would be doing something in line with what is written. But it sounds to me--and as others have alluded--that you would be in the minority here.

thanks manny..i agree with your assessment

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by grounder

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

My opinion is that you are making more out of this than was ever intended by those rules supplements in ASA. Yes, what you state does meet the letter of the wording, but I believe you are missing the intent.

No, not any type of musical instrument; the "artificial noisemaker" is to stop air horns, trumpets, amplified music, actual drums, even the redneck jugs with pebbles or coins. But, if something has a softball purpose to be in the dugout, unless they are damaging something or overly distracting, leave it alone!!

It has been my experience when one team complained, and umpires stopped the use of ANYTHING, it then became louder than it was before. Yelling, shrieking, jumping on the benches, whatever.

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

This is exactly what I have been told. It is precisely the reason I started the conversation.

It has nothing to do with my opinion of the rule or whether I like the drumming (most umpires I know absolutely hate it because they feel that it interferes with their concentration - everyone is different). This is what they asked NCAA umpires to enforce, so I have done so.

I do not like the idea of a coach having to lodge a complaint to address the topic. It causes inconsistency and leads to a "we did it yesterday and the umpires didn't say anything" (which may or may not be true) situation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My opinion is that you are making more out of this than was ever intended by those rules supplements in ASA. Yes, what you state does meet the letter of the wording, but I believe you are missing the intent.

No, not any type of musical instrument; the "artificial noisemaker" is to stop air horns, trumpets, amplified music, actual drums, even the redneck jugs with pebbles or coins. But, if something has a softball purpose to be in the dugout, unless they are damaging something or overly distracting, leave it alone!!

It has been my experience when one team complained, and umpires stopped the use of ANYTHING, it then became louder than it was before. Yelling, shrieking, jumping on the benches, whatever.

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

You know, any rule like this is useless without proper definition. Much like ASA should define "errant throw", maybe the NCAA should define what the mean by an artificial noisemaker. What you call an artificial noisemaker may not be what the next guy calls an artificial noisemaker.

For example, a musical instrument of any type probably should not be considered an artificial noisemaker since it is manufactured for the express purpose of making noise. And if there is an artificial noisemaker, what is a natural noisemaker?

I believe the NCAA and those following suit make far too much out of issues like this.