Enter the Marching Band

[grounder]

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by grounder

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

I think you've pointed out that artificial noisemakers are prohibited in championship play, based on RS 49 (and I don't have an ASA rule book handy to check). The same prohibition is listed in the ASA Code.

So if you were to not ignore it and put a stop to it, I suppose you would be doing something in line with what is written. But it sounds to me--and as others have alluded--that you would be in the minority here.

[grounder]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I think you've pointed out that artificial noisemakers are prohibited in championship play, based on RS 49 (and I don't have an ASA rule book handy to check). The same prohibition is listed in the ASA Code.

So if you were to not ignore it and put a stop to it, I suppose you would be doing something in line with what is written. But it sounds to me--and as others have alluded--that you would be in the minority here.

thanks manny..i agree with your assessment

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by grounder

so i am clear, in summary, ASA teams can play any type of musical instruments as loudly as they want, bang on anything they want with anything they want , including sticks and buckets or balls and buckets while they are in the dugout as long as they dont chant negatively? i am to ignore rule supplement 49e (about equipment being used for other than its original design) and 49f ( no artificial noisemakers) because those two supplements do not pertain to this.

My opinion is that you are making more out of this than was ever intended by those rules supplements in ASA. Yes, what you state does meet the letter of the wording, but I believe you are missing the intent.

No, not any type of musical instrument; the "artificial noisemaker" is to stop air horns, trumpets, amplified music, actual drums, even the redneck jugs with pebbles or coins. But, if something has a softball purpose to be in the dugout, unless they are damaging something or overly distracting, leave it alone!!

It has been my experience when one team complained, and umpires stopped the use of ANYTHING, it then became louder than it was before. Yelling, shrieking, jumping on the benches, whatever.

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

This is exactly what I have been told. It is precisely the reason I started the conversation.

It has nothing to do with my opinion of the rule or whether I like the drumming (most umpires I know absolutely hate it because they feel that it interferes with their concentration - everyone is different). This is what they asked NCAA umpires to enforce, so I have done so.

I do not like the idea of a coach having to lodge a complaint to address the topic. It causes inconsistency and leads to a "we did it yesterday and the umpires didn't say anything" (which may or may not be true) situation.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I do not like the idea of a coach having to lodge a complaint to address the topic. It causes inconsistency and leads to a "we did it yesterday and the umpires didn't say anything" (which may or may not be true) situation.

AFAIC, you get more inconsistency if umpires are allowed to address this on their own volition without a coach's request. You may have put a stop to it yesterday in your game because the noise bothered you, but I don't do anything about it today because I'm not phased by it.

So to me, it doesn't matter whether or not the rule requires the opposing coach to lodge a complaint. You're still going to get some umpires who will put a stop to it right away, and others who won't give a flip.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My opinion is that you are making more out of this than was ever intended by those rules supplements in ASA. Yes, what you state does meet the letter of the wording, but I believe you are missing the intent.

No, not any type of musical instrument; the "artificial noisemaker" is to stop air horns, trumpets, amplified music, actual drums, even the redneck jugs with pebbles or coins. But, if something has a softball purpose to be in the dugout, unless they are damaging something or overly distracting, leave it alone!!

It has been my experience when one team complained, and umpires stopped the use of ANYTHING, it then became louder than it was before. Yelling, shrieking, jumping on the benches, whatever.

As to the NCAA rule, I have been told by several conference coordinators and (former and current) SUP members that we ARE NOT to address 13.4.2 (using equipment) UNTIL and unless brought to our attention by a complaining opponent. Conversely, and despite the same language, we ARE to address 5.11.2 (artificial noisemakers) on our own observation. Given that lack of a more specific interpretation from DA, I do as directed.

You know, any rule like this is useless without proper definition. Much like ASA should define "errant throw", maybe the NCAA should define what the mean by an artificial noisemaker. What you call an artificial noisemaker may not be what the next guy calls an artificial noisemaker.

For example, a musical instrument of any type probably should not be considered an artificial noisemaker since it is manufactured for the express purpose of making noise. And if there is an artificial noisemaker, what is a natural noisemaker?

I believe the NCAA and those following suit make far too much out of issues like this.

[CecilOne]

I think noisemakers are
- natural - human body
- artificial - other things