Enter the Marching Band

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I'm glad to see that ESPN shows so much footage of illegal conduct in the dugout, as the players drum away on buckets with balls. ESPN "announcers" love it and the umpires do nothing. No wonder I have to hear this every weekend and then hear, "We do it every game. Everyone does it on tv." Maybe we can get a tuba player in the dugout for the next game.

And if they were drumming on buckets with, say, their water bottles or their street shoes or even drumsticks that they snuck in their bat bags, what's the difference? Is there an NCAA rule that prohibits this?

What is the purpose of rule 13.4.2 anyway? Is it to limit the noise factor out of the dugout? Or is it to minimize the possibility of softball equipment getting damaged during the game? I have a hard time believing it's the former, because I've heard girls chant and yell and make all sorts of noise out of the dugouts, and, quite frankly, I've always thought that was the norm in softball.

Or are we to limit this kind of noise using 5.11 on "Artificial Noisemakers"? What defines an artificial noisemaker anyway?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

And if they were drumming on buckets with, say, their water bottles or their street shoes or even drumsticks that they snuck in their bat bags, what's the difference? Is there an NCAA rule that prohibits this?

What is the purpose of rule 13.4.2 anyway? Is it to limit the noise factor out of the dugout? Or is it to minimize the possibility of softball equipment getting damaged during the game? I have a hard time believing it's the former, because I've heard girls chant and yell and make all sorts of noise out of the dugouts, and, quite frankly, I've always thought that was the norm in softball.

Or are we to limit this kind of noise using 5.11 on "Artificial Noisemakers"? What defines an artificial noisemaker anyway?

If someone's blowing a referee whistle, or blasting a tuba during a windup, etc - someone's going to say something and then we're going to address it. Chanting, pounding, screaming ... all normal.

[ASA Ump MN]

It's kind of amazing how much fun those girls are having in the dugouts before during and after the games!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by grounder

the devils advocate

speaking ASA. couldnt an umpire consider the banging unsportsmanlike conduct much like negative cheering and invoke rule 10 - 1 power and duties? " the plate umpire shall have the authority to make decisions on any situations not specifaclly covered in these rules"

How, she was cheering for her team? If you are going to do that, maybe we should use the same rule and remove the player's shoes after a warning for misuse by stomping them on the dugout floor in unison to create the rhythm for a cheer.

[grounder]

its just a question pal..take it easy with the silly comparisons

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by grounder

its just a question pal..take it easy with the silly comparisons

Honestly ... I didn't find the comparison that silly, and don't find his outside the box scenario any differently than yours.

As to 10-1 ... if you're willing to trot it out to cover this, I have to worry what else you're using it for. In 21 years, I've used it once ... a car with no driver got somehow put in gear and rolled over the RF fence (and eventually RF before someone caught up with it) while a ball was in play, scaring the crapola out of a bunch of 12 year olds.

And that's about how far outside the box a situation needs to be for you to use that rule.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by grounder

its just a question pal..take it easy with the silly comparisons

Seriously, you don't want to open the door of saying that softball chanting and other forms of noise-making are unsporting. Unless the chants are blatantly directed at the opposing team's skill level, how are you going to regulate them? Are you going to limit the volume level? Are you going to only allow them between pitches and stop them the moment the pitcher looks in for the sign?

When I moved from umpiring baseball to softball, dugout noise was something that took me some getting used to. I soon realized that it was extremely rare that the opposing coach would complain, so I don't bother at all. I certainly wouldn't invoke any kind of unsporting determination to put a stop to it.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

There is also a greater mutual respect between coaches and umpires. Coaches also know that their institutions aren't paying them to get ejected. People often lose sight of the fact that most institutions think that it reflects poorly on them when someone on their payroll acts so foolishly, especially in front of a crowd, that they get thrown out.

One thing I can say for certain is that there was at least one DI coach ejected this year

Didn't Alabama HC get ran at Supers last year? And I think there was one that got tossed during controversy over an INT or OBS play but I can't remember what school..

[UmpireErnie]

I seem to remember from my baseball days many moons ago that there was a school of thought in that world that getting thrown out of a game will fire up the team. Fortunately softball types don't appear to have attended this school!

[grounder]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Seriously, you don't want to open the door of saying that softball chanting and other forms of noise-making are unsporting. Unless the chants are blatantly directed at the opposing team's skill level, how are you going to regulate them? Are you going to limit the volume level? Are you going to only allow them between pitches and stop them the moment the pitcher looks in for the sign?

When I moved from umpiring baseball to softball, dugout noise was something that took me some getting used to. I soon realized that it was extremely rare that the opposing coach would complain, so I don't bother at all. I certainly wouldn't invoke any kind of unsporting determination to put a stop to it.

thank you manny for the reasonable answer...and yes mdlonghorn it was a silly comparison with belittling intent and not informative at all and there is no need to worry about how i use the rule because i dont think i ever have although i know its there. i prefaced the question as being the devil's advocate, somewhat tongue in cheek...geez

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by grounder

its just a question pal..take it easy with the silly comparisons

And it was only an answer, bubba. If you didn't want an answer, you shouldn't ask a question.

[UmpireErnie]

Good buddy of mine who is also the head of the local basketball officials association tells me that NFHS basketball rules specifically prohibit artificial noise makers being used by teams and/or fans.

Then comes the state tournament.. the main sponsor (a statewide bank) hands out inflatable "thunder sticks" to all the fans!

[grounder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And it was only an answer, bubba. If you didn't want an answer, you shouldn't ask a question.

well, i would have appreciated a less patronizing answer but following your previous posts to others i shouldnt have expected anything more than that. i always respect your opinions and interpretations as the final word but there really is no need to be demeaning......its no big deal. lets move on

[UmpireErnie]

Had a JV game where the fan's from one team were saying "swing!" when other team was batting. Other than that they were simply cheering on their DDs who were losing badly.

Coach for the team who's batter were being told "swing!" by the fans wanted me to tell them they had to stop. She was kinda surprised when I told her no. Then she wanted to know if she could tell them. Told her I could not stop her but I doubted that her talking to them would be a good idea.

Sorry but if you can't play while there is noise going on you have bigger challenges than the noise!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Sorry but if you can't play while there is noise going on you have bigger challenges than the noise!

Maybe someone should tell that to Sergio Garcia.