Look back rule question

[chapmaja]

This is another one I had earlier this season.

I was the plate umpire.

B1 takes ball four and runs down to 1b. The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher who is in the circle. B1 keeps running, rounding first and goes straight non-stop to second base without ever stopping. I see nothing wrong, but the defensive coach argues with the BU from the dugout about the no call since the pitcher had the ball in the circle when the runner touched 1b. The coach gets a response from the field from this umpire and we continue.

During the next AB, B1 (R1) steals third. B2 then draws a fourth ball and runs down to 1b, rounding the base and stopping two strides after rounding the base. She sees that the ball has been returned to the pitcher, in the circle, so she stops and immediately returns to 1b. The BU calls the B2 out for not continuing on to second base. The 3b coach is now yelling at the BU about the call. In two plays, we have had both coaches yelling about calls on the bases.

What calls were correct and what were not. Personally, based on my understanding of the Look-back rule, both plays were legal. Am I missing something on the second play?

[jwwashburn]

Which Rules set?
What did you find when you consulted the rule book?

[RKBUmp]

Why did your partner call the runner out? As long as the runner didnt continue on toward right field and then head toward second, the rule does not require the runner to continue on to 2nd. They are allowed a stop and reversal of direction. As long as the runner didnt stop and just stand there, rounding, stopping and returning to 1st base is perfectly legal.

[rj]

In both cases there was no violation. Answers received are correct. I had similar situation because the coach thought once the pitcher is in the pitching circle w/ball the runners have to stop.

[EsqUmp]

NCAA: 12.21.2 When a base runner is legally off her base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing her turn at bat and she is in motion as the pitcher takes
possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle, the base runner may continue
moving forward in the direction she is going without stopping; or she may
immediately and directly go back in the other direction.

Only the NCAA prohibits the runner in motion from stopping and then continuing the same direction. All other codes allow the runner in motion to stop and then decide immediately to continue or retreat.

In your cases, both plays were legal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

NCAA: 12.21.2 When a base runner is legally off her base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing her turn at bat and she is in motion as the pitcher takes
possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle, the base runner may continue
moving forward in the direction she is going without stopping; or she may
immediately and directly go back in the other direction.

Only the NCAA prohibits the runner in motion from stopping and then continuing the same direction.

Which is absurd.

[TwoBits]

Speaking NFHS:

8-7-2: The runner(s) may stop once, but then must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Which Rules set?
What did you find when you consulted the rule book?

The rules were FED. The part about what I found when I consulted the rulebook was covered in the last part of the post. "Personally, based on my understanding of the Look-back rule, both plays were legal."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The rules were FED. The part about what I found when I consulted the rulebook was covered in the last part of the post. "Personally, based on my understanding of the Look-back rule, both plays were legal."

You are correct - both plays were legal.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The rules were FED. The part about what I found when I consulted the rulebook was covered in the last part of the post. "Personally, based on my understanding of the Look-back rule, both plays were legal."

agreed

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Which is absurd.

I agree. Honestly, I don't think it was an attempt to differentiate NCAA from ASA (and everyone else). I think that the "rules committee" didn't fully understand the rule, so when they wrote it, they did so inaccurately.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

the defensive coach argues with the BU from the dugout ... snip ...
The coach gets a response from the field from this umpire and we continue.

The BU calls the B2 out for not continuing on to second base.

clinic time !!

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

clinic time !!

Sadly, the BU on that game was all about letting me know how experienced he was umpiring.

He asked me before the game (the visitors were late so we had dead time), how old I was. When I told him he said he had been umpiring 20 years longer than I've been alive. I'm in my mid-30's, which puts him at least into his 60's or 70's. I think he has forgotten more than I've known about the game, which might be part of the problem.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Sadly, the BU on that game was all about letting me know how experienced he was umpiring.

He asked me before the game (the visitors were late so we had dead time), how old I was. When I told him he said he had been umpiring 20 years longer than I've been alive. I'm in my mid-30's, which puts him at least into his 60's or 70's. I think he has forgotten more than I've known about the game, which might be part of the problem.

Some people think repetition is experience.

Some people think enough of either means not having to care any more.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Which is absurd.

Agreed. But, it's their game, played under their rules - and those of us who do their games...........