Batter-Runner on uncaught 3rd strike and loose ball

[RKBUmp]

FED 8-2-6 The batter runner interferes with a fielder attemtping to make an initial play, interferes with a fielder attempting to throw the ball, intentionally interfers with a thrown ball while out of the batters box, makes contact with a fair bated ball before reaching first base, or interferes with a dropped thrid stirke.

FED case play 8-2-6 B3 has a count of 3-2 with no runners on base and two outs. On the next pitch B3 swing and misses. The ball bouinces off F2's shin guard and lands in front of home plate. As F2 moves out to field the ball, (a) B runs into her, knocking her down or (b) B3 unintentionally kicks the ball. Ruling: In both (a) and (b) , interference; the umpire calls "dead ball" and rules the batter runner out.

ASA 8-2-F-6 When the batter runner interferes with: a dropped third strike.

If the ball only made incedental contact and did not affect the play, I would say you have nothing. But, intent is not required, if the batter runner makes contact with the dropped third strike and interferes, they are out.

[PandaBear]

as to whether the batter-runner actually interfered with the ball or the play.

The case book cites kicking, but caroming off the side of the leg (for example) I wouldn't consider "kicking".

If the ball is further deflected away from the catcher, I agree that would interfere with the catcher making the play. But contact could actually even benefit the defense, by keeping the ball from rolling even further away.

[MD Longhorn]

Here's what you're looking for...

Did the catcher have a play on the runner (or the batter-runner for that matter), and then, after the ball contacted or was contacted by the batter-runner, no longer have a play on the runner (or BR)?

If yes - it's INT. Again, intent not required, but a legitimate play on a runner IS required.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Here's what you're looking for...

Did the catcher have a play on the runner (or the batter-runner for that matter), and then, after the ball contacted or was contacted by the batter-runner, no longer have a play on the runner (or BR)?

If yes - it's INT. Again, intent not required, but a legitimate play on a runner IS required.

Just out of curiosity, does this also apply to when the BR takes off for first, and she drops her bat and either:
- hits the ball in either fair or foul territory?
- trips up the catcher?

It seems to me the wording in the rule that says "interferes with a dropped third strike" is so open-ended, we basically give the catcher all the leeway imaginable to make the play. Is that really the intent?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

- hits the ball in either fair or foul territory?

Different rule, but absolutely yes.

- trips up the catcher?

No. This is one of the few exceptions to the "there are no train wrecks in softball" rule of thumb.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Different rule, but absolutely yes.

What do you mean by different rule? I had in my mind somewhere mapped this as similar to hitting the ball a second time with the bat, but as it's the first time, I guess that wouldn't apply. So we just have the regular interference rules, no?

[BretMan]

I'd like to see this rule be similar to when a baserunner gets hit with a deflected batted ball. When that happens the runner gets a break if contact with the ball was unavoidable.

Why should the defense get a free out, plus halt the advancement of any other runners, just because they couldnt catch the ball and it happened to deflect into the runner or her path?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

It seems to me the wording in the rule that says "interferes with a dropped third strike" is so open-ended, we basically give the catcher all the leeway imaginable to make the play. Is that really the intent?

Attempted a rule change a couple years ago making this an intentional violation, but was overwhelmingly dismissed. I am referring to the BR interfering with a U3K, not a bat hitting the ball a 2nd time.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

FED 8-2-6 The batter runner interferes with a fielder attemtping to make an initial play, interferes with a fielder attempting to throw the ball, intentionally interfers with a thrown ball while out of the batters box, makes contact with a fair bated ball before reaching first base, or interferes with a dropped thrid stirke.

FED case play 8-2-6 B3 has a count of 3-2 with no runners on base and two outs. On the next pitch B3 swing and misses. The ball bouinces off F2's shin guard and lands in front of home plate. As F2 moves out to field the ball, (a) B runs into her, knocking her down or (b) B3 unintentionally kicks the ball. Ruling: In both (a) and (b) , interference; the umpire calls "dead ball" and rules the batter runner out.

ASA 8-2-F-6 When the batter runner interferes with: a dropped third strike.

If the ball only made incedental contact and did not affect the play, I would say you have nothing. But, intent is not required, if the batter runner makes contact with the dropped third strike and interferes, they are out.

I disagree with the FED Case play.

The rule specifically says intitial play. The defintition of initial play 2-47-3 clearly states an initial play on a FAIR BATTER BALL.



There is also a difference between the caseplay, and the situation that is presented in the original post. The caseplay says the ball bounced in front of home plate and was kicked. The ball bouncing off the batter in the batters box is not the same as the player kicking the ball.

Interference would not be called on a situation in which a pitched ball (called a ball or strike) bounces off the catchers equipment and then hits the batter.


Personally in the stuation presented I think the 7-4-4 caseplay actually is more accurate.

[HugoTafurst]

[QUOTE=chapmaja;893550]I disagree with the FED Case play.

The rule specifically says intitial play. The defintition of initial play 2-47-3 clearly states an initial play on a FAIR BATTER BALL.
(snip)QUOTE]

FED 8-2-6 The batter runner interferes with a fielder attemtping to make an initial play, interferes with a fielder attempting to throw the ball, intentionally interfers with a thrown ball while out of the batters box, makes contact with a fair bated ball before reaching first base, or interferes with a dropped thrid stirke.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I disagree with the FED Case play.

The rule specifically says intitial play. The defintition of initial play 2-47-3 clearly states an initial play on a FAIR BATTER BALL.

This specific case play doesn't address the entirety of rule 8-2-6, only the part about the dropped third. So I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.