3rd strike dropped "diversion" when batter/runner is already out

[chuck chopper]

It doesn't appear that the ASA has such a rule. Their mindset must only be geared towards adult softball. The batter/runner who is already out (1st occupied less than 2 out)& can't go, is now going to first, drawing a throw, we have an overthrow into right field, then more subsequent plays...all on someone who is out. Why can't they disallow it, and kill the play in youth ball. Or at least 16 & Under. The other baserunners who are stealing is the issue.
Many UIC's at local level ball are recommending we Kill the play and put the stealing runners back to where they were before all the Chaos started. OPINIONS ??

[Dakota]

Doesn't your defense have a coach?

It is the defense's (esp the catcher) responsibility to know the game situation and to not throw the ball, or perhaps to throw down to second (or wherever) to get the runner attempting to steal.

I call a lot of 12U rec ball. Whenever there are 2 strikes on the batter, the coach is always reminding the catcher of the situation (# of outs, 1st occupied, etc.)

3rd strike is a live ball. It is legal for runner on base to attempt to advance during any live ball.

I think the rule is fine just as it is.

Perhaps, as I implied with my first question, the real problem is with coaching?

[Dakota]

BTW, chuck, I just noticed your post count...

Welcome to the board!

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Sometimes..depending on the situation I will just say loudly..OUT when that batter tries to start running..know it isnt Kosher but....saves tons of arguments!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by chuck chopper
It doesn't appear that the ASA has such a rule. Their mindset must only be geared towards adult softball. The batter/runner who is already out (1st occupied less than 2 out)& can't go, is now going to first, drawing a throw, we have an overthrow into right field, then more subsequent plays...all on someone who is out. Why can't they disallow it, and kill the play in youth ball. Or at least 16 & Under. The other baserunners who are stealing is the issue.
Many UIC's at local level ball are recommending we Kill the play and put the stealing runners back to where they were before all the Chaos started. OPINIONS ??

There is no difference in the rule for JO or adult.

I suggest you check ASA rule 8.7.P. This specifically states that the rule does NOT apply to a BR running to first base when not entitled due to an uncaught third strike.

[Steve M]

Chuck,
Welcome to the board, but I doubt you'll find much sympathy for that rule change - especially at 16&U. I think ASA used to have such a variation for the 10&U game. At 16&U, those are ball players and ASA is treating them as ball playres - they need to be alert. Mike cited the rule for you. Those uic's who recommend killing the play are doing the umpires and the players a disservice.

Steve M

[bluezebra]

Whenever that happened in my game(s), I hollered, "BATTER'S OUT! BATTER'S OUT!"

If the catcher couldn't understand that, and/or hadn't been coached properly, tough.

I agree with the others. Don't change the rules to cover dumb coaching.

Bob

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE
Sometimes..depending on the situation I will just say loudly..OUT when that batter tries to start running..know it isnt Kosher but....saves tons of arguments!

It is "kosher", in fact very good umpiring and a recommended mechanic to call "Batter Is OUT" on such a play, just as bz said.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by bluezebra
Whenever that happened in my game(s), I hollered, "BATTER'S OUT! BATTER'S OUT!"

I remember an article in Referee magazine that mentioned the original situation, if done intentionally just to draw a throw, could be considered USC. I do what you are suggesting and it always works great for me. It batters usually immediately quit running.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by SC Ump

I remember an article in Referee magazine that mentioned the original situation, if done intentionally just to draw a throw, could be considered USC. I do what you are suggesting and it always works great for me. It batters usually immediately quit running.

It is good umpiring, and I do that too, but just to emphasize - even if the umpire remains stoic and stationary like a statue, it is still the defense's responsiblity to know the situation and not make a stupid throw.

Regarding the Referee magazine article, since in their heart of hearts they don't consider softball a real sport, they have apparently not read the ASA rule on this.

[chuck chopper]

Since most of what I UMP is regular rec council level, not regional/national/school ball level..I have even told the batter as she enters the box if its an infield fly situation or if its a "no go" 3rd strike dropped situation, just to avoid having the batter/runner running all over the place when she is already out. These kids are 10-15 years old. Some of them just won't catch on to the more complicated rules.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by chuck chopper
Since most of what I UMP is regular rec council level, not regional/national/school ball level..I have even told the batter as she enters the box if its an infield fly situation or if its a "no go" 3rd strike dropped situation, just to avoid having the batter/runner running all over the place when she is already out. These kids are 10-15 years old. Some of them just won't catch on to the more complicated rules.

While I understand your motives, I see a couple of problems with this.

1) In the context of your rec games, you set yourself up for being the guy to blame if you forget to mention one of these more complicated situations and then all manner of chaos ensues.

2) This is coaching. Umpires are not coaches. It puts us in the position of favoring one team over the other.

My recomendation is you stop this practice.

[whiskers_ump]

Totally agree with Tom on this....Now should some of these
players get on travel teams and are not told of these
situations, they are gonna blame old "blue". We normally
have enough to handle without being blamed for not "reminding"
players of certain situations.

glen

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Chuck,

I don't think you should do that! Just holler "Batter's OUT!"

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
I don't think you should do that! Just holler "Batter's OUT!"

Elaine, thanks for phrasing your answer so I can understand it.