Dropped third strike hitting a batter-runner.

[Illini_Ref]

This occured in a game that a friend of mine had (he had the bases).

A batter swung and missed a third strike that the catcher failed to catch. The ball came up and hit the batter. The PU said foul ball and put the batter back at bat. My buddy went in and told the PU that the batter did not hit the ball. The PU said it didn't matter!

I know that is wrong, but here is my question.

In reading through the FED rule and case books I find some contradicting sections. The pitch ends when the catcher secures the ball, the ball comes to rest, the ball goes out of play, the batter hits the ball, or when the ball becomes dead.

This being said, in the above case the pitch had not ended when it struck the batter. Therefore, shouldn't the ball be dead when it contacts the batter (or runner) (5-1-1a)? I wouldn't rule like this, but by rule I think you could.

Case 8.4.1 Situation I has a situation where the catcher chases a dropped third strike down the baseline where it is stepped on by the batter-runner. It states that if it is unintentional then the ball is still live. How can this be? The pitch has not ended and it struck a runner.

Help.

[nine01c]

OBR
The pitch is considered to be ended. If the batter-runner unintentionally kicks the ball, or contacts the catcher who is trying to field the ball, there is no interference, ball is live and in play. However, if either action is intentional, there is interference.

[thumpferee]

Case 8.4.1 Situation I has a situation where the catcher chases a dropped third strike down the baseline where it is stepped on by the batter-runner. It states that if it is unintentional then the ball is still live. How can this be? The pitch has not ended and it struck a runner.

Case 8.4.1.J is what you're refering to,

The pitch was not batted. The pitch ricochets off of f2's mitt. The fielder, in your case, the catcher had his initial attempt to field the ball which he caused to be stepped on, or hit in your situation.

There is another example where the ball is batted sharply to the pitcher and bounces off him toward 1st baseline and then unintentionally stepped on by B1. Ball is still alive.

See Fed rulebook, Rule 8.4.Art 1.

Batter-runner is out when:

he INTENTIONALLY interferes with the catcher's attempt to field the ball after a third strike.

You also ask:

In reading through the FED rule and case books I find some contradicting sections. The pitch ends when the catcher secures the ball, the ball comes to rest, the ball goes out of play, the batter hits the ball, or when the ball becomes dead.

This being said, in the above case the pitch had not ended when it struck the batter. Therefore, shouldn't the ball be dead when it contacts the batter.


In your situation:

A batter swung and missed a third strike that the catcher failed to catch. The ball came up and hit the batter. The PU said foul ball and put the batter back at bat.


The PU was simply wrong. The pitch was not dead. The ball was still live. The ball would be dead if it hit the batter from the pitcher. Dead Ball, take your base.

There would be no difference if the ball hit the PU after a swinging and dropped 3rd strike, Ball is still live. Why would the ball hitting batter be any different?


As far as:

shouldn't the ball be dead when it contacts the batter (or runner) (5-1-1a)?

The rule states: The ball becomes dead when,

A PITCH touches a batter or his clothing. Notice PITCH. NOT ricochet off catcher's mitt.

He then would become a runner.

The runner part applies if he was hit by pitch, he becomes a runner, but the ball is dead.

Also, the ball would be dead if the batter swings at strike 3 and the ball hits him. Ball is dead, batter is out.

Hope this helped.

[Illini_Ref]

If a batter swings at a pitch that hits the dirt and rebounds up and hits him (never touches the catcher), what is the call. Strike three? Uncaught third strike? Dead ball?

I know it is strike three, but then what? The catcher didn't catch it BEFORE it hit the ground.

I believe that if it rebounds off of the catcher and THEN hits the Batter, then the ball is live and the batter may advance with liability to be put out. However, what about the above case where the ball hits the batter first. Would the ball be dead because it hit the batter? Would it be live and considered an uncaught third strike?

There HAS to be a difference between this and a pitch that hits a batter in flight with two strikes that he swings at. That's a no-brainer, strike three, batter out. But in that case the ball could have been caught before it touched the ground had it not hit the batter. I would think that a ball in the dirt cannot be caught BEFORE it touches the batter.

Is there any distinction here?

[nine01c]

There is no difference.
A batter is out when:
...his third strike is uncaught because he was hit by the pitch (swinging or called). The ball is dead. 6.05(f) OBR
There is no distinction here regarding a bouncing pitch.

If the (lousy, swung at) pitch hits the catcher first, this is a different situation, dropped third strike, ball still live, BR can try for first (no interference unless BR intentionally contacts ball or catcher).

[thumpferee]

If a batter swings at a pitch that hits the dirt and rebounds up and hits him (never touches the catcher), what is the call.

Dead Ball, batter is out.

What is it if the pitch hits the ground and then hits batter who doesn't swing? Dead Ball, Hit By Pitch.

IMO, there is no difference in this situation, ball is Dead.

See FED Rule 5.1.1.NOTE





[Edited by thumpferee on May 1st, 2003 at 04:16 AM]

[nine01c]

This thread keeps changing direction.
Anyway, in the last two examples the ball is indeed DEAD.
But in the first situation, batter is OUT. In the second situation, he is awarded first base. They are distinctly different.

The original post asked about a STRIKE THREE (swinging) and the batter is HBP. Is there a difference if the pitched ball was in flight, or if it bounced first? In either case ball is DEAD, batter is OUT. OBR

At least I think that is what this thread is/was about.