Dropped third strike, batter-runner kicks the ball

[Gre144]

I never seen this before. Dropped third strike and batter-runner accidently kicks the ball as he runs towards first base. It probably could be describe better by saying the ball landed in the pathway of the batter-runner as he headed towards first.

Coach screams at me that I should have called the batter-runner out immediately.

1)Could someone direct me to the Fed Rule that would describe how to hand this situation?

2)When is the batter runner considered to be out of the batter's box as he runs towards first? I think that where he is at the time he accidently contacts the ball plays an important part in determining if he is out or not.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Gre144
I never seen this before. Dropped third strike and batter-runner accidently kicks the ball as he runs towards first base. It probably could be describe better by saying the ball landed in the pathway of the batter-runner as he headed towards first.

Coach screams at me that I should have called the batter-runner out immediately.

1)Could someone direct me to the Fed Rule that would describe how to hand this situation?

2)When is the batter runner considered to be out of the batter's box as he runs towards first? I think that where he is at the time he accidently contacts the ball plays an important part in determining if he is out or not.

From the Fed casebook:

2.21.1 SITUATION C: With two outs, B3 strikes out, but F2 drops the ball, which rebounds into B3's base path. As B3 begins running to first, B3 accidentally kicks ball.

Ruling: B3 is not guilty of interference and the ball remains alive, unless in the umpire's judgment B3 intentionally kicked the ball (8-4).

OBR has some different viewpoints, however.
I believe J/R's is similar to Fed whereas JEA says that if the accidental "kick" prevents F2 from making a play, interference can be called. All consider intentional kicking as interference.


Freix

[woolnojg]

I think you might need to go back to Ron Luciano and his philosophy on this one. "Always punish the team that caused the problem."
Defense failed to make/receive a clean pitch, dropped strike.
B/R attempts to run to 1st per rule.
Ball stays live, defense must make the play from where the ball is.
Unless you have judged the "kick" to be intentional. Then B/R would be out.

This is not a batted ball but rather a thrown ball. Batters and/or runners are not out when hit by a thrown ball unless they commit interference.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by woolnojg

Unless you have judged the "kick" to be intentional. Then B/R would be out.

There's a very strong possibility that I'm judging the kick to be intentional if the batter has cleared the box, has had opportunity to see and avoid the ball, and then it "accidentally" gets kicked. IMO, he needs to avoid the ball.

If kicked while in or leaving the box OR if the ball deflects forward into him and then gets kicked, that's accidental.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[Gre144]

When are you considered to have left the box:

1) With one foot completely outside of the box?
2) With two feet completely outside of the box?

[TwoBits]

FED Baseball: If it's accidental, runner is safe. See casebook interpretation above.

OBR: No mention of this occuring is listed.

FED Softball: Runner is out, ball is dead. Doesn't matter if it was accidental or on purpose.

This happened in a game I was doing 3 years ago. 14 year-olds using OBR rules. I was UIC. I let the action play itself out, then after defensive coach calls time to argue, I talked it over with my partner, and we decided that since it was a pitched (thrown) ball that the catcher had a chance to catch but didn't and that the batter did not contact the ball intentionally that the ball was live.

[4 Sport Official]

I had almost this exact situation occur last year in a NFHS game. The only difference was that the ball squirted out as the very alert batter had already started for first on his swinging third strike. It was more of a case where the ball caught and contacted him. The coaches were screaming because the ball had contacted him in fair territory, which was irrelevant, since it was not a batted ball.

[NJumpire9]

Definitely, in this case, a NO CALL.
Remember "Sh** Happens"
Bfair hit the rule (FED) right on the head.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by TwoBits
FED Baseball: If it's accidental, runner is safe. See casebook interpretation above.

OBR: No mention of this occuring is listed.

FED Softball: Runner is out, ball is dead. Doesn't matter if it was accidental or on purpose.

This happened in a game I was doing 3 years ago. 14 year-olds using OBR rules. I was UIC. I let the action play itself out, then after defensive coach calls time to argue, I talked it over with my partner, and we decided that since it was a pitched (thrown) ball that the catcher had a chance to catch but didn't and that the batter did not contact the ball intentionally that the ball was live.

TwoBits, I agree with your FED and OBR baseball rulings - live ball, catcher missed his opportunity to field the ball, runner not responsible for contact unless deemed intentional. But why do you make the softball ruling as a dead ball and runner is out? I assume you are talking fast pitch rules... actually I can see even less reason in a slow pitch game (there is no squirting forward - the catcher would have to hit/push the ball forward into the batter). Do you have a rule reference or casebook play?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

One foot completely out of the box and the batter is considered out of the box and is now in jeopardy of being called out if he contacts the batted ball ... just like stepping out of the box to make a hit - fair or foul, the batter is out.