Dead Ball Penalty

[Manny A]

8-4-3h is applicable if the ball deflects off the fielder and goes into DBT. You have a case where the fielder provided the additional impetus that sent the ball into DBT that would have otherwise stayed in play.

So I think the appropriate rule would be 8-4-3f, and it should be two bases from the time of the "kick".

[MNBlue]

I have a 2 base award from the TOP.

8-4-3f pertains to when the defense gains possession of the ball and then throws it out of play.

f. the ball is in play and is overthrown (beyond the boundary lines) or is blocked by the defense.

PENALTY: (Art. 3f) All runners will be awarded two bases, and the award will be governed by the positions of the runners when the ball left the fielder's hand. Runners may return to touch a missed base or base left too soon. If two runners are between the same bases, the award is based on the position of the lead runner.

8-4-3h pertains to an uncontrolled batted ball that goes out of play:

h. a fair ball bounces over or rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. Also, when it deflects off of a defensive player and goes out of play in foul territory, deflects off a runner or umpire and goes out of play after having passed an infielder excluding the pitcher and provided no other fielder had a chance to make an out.

PENALTY: (Art. 3h) The ball is dead and all runners are awarded two bases from the time of the pitch.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I have a 2 base award from the TOP.

8-4-3f pertains to when the defense gains possession of the ball and then throws it out of play.


8-4-3h pertains to an uncontrolled batted ball that goes out of play:

So, ball is hit down the line and stops just short of DBT. F7 goes after it, and the BR is rounding second going to third. F7 stumbles and inadvertently kicks the ball, which makes it go into DBT. We're supposed to kill play and send the BR back to second base, even though she had an easy triple??

I don't think that's what 8-4-3H intended.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So, ball is hit down the line and stops just short of DBT. F7 goes after it, and the BR is rounding second going to third. F7 stumbles and inadvertently kicks the ball, which makes it go into DBT. We're supposed to kill play and send the BR back to second base, even though she had an easy triple??

I don't think that's what 8-4-3H intended.

What if I'm the BR and I'm still not to 1B when the ball goes out of play. Are you going to leave me at 1B or are you going to put me on 2B?

If you put me on 2B, what gives you the authority to put a rabbit on 3B?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What if I'm the BR and I'm still not to 1B when the ball goes out of play. Are you going to leave me at 1B or are you going to put me on 2B?

I mentioned 8-4-3f, and said that the Effect should be two bases from the time of the kick. So if the BR is only on first base when it happens, she gets awarded third. If she's on second, then she scores.

Or perhaps the appropriate ruling is one base from when the ball enters DBT, using the 8-4-3f Exception 1. And that would be in line with the catch-n-carry rule, 8-4-3i.

But I don't agree that it should be a TOP award.

[tcannizzo]

If outfielder kicks a softball through the 15' gap between the end of the temporary fence and the chain link fence enclosing the field, wouldn't we have:
"GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLL"

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA addressed this a couple years ago and I agree. Don't see why it would be different for HS.

If the player provides the impetus that causes the ball to enter DBT, it is two bases from the time it left the player's foot/leg/whatever, just as if the player threw the ball.

Of course, you have a load of idiots who want to argue that a hard hit ball hitting the arm or shoulder of a player trying to get in front of it cause it to leave play, but that is not what it should be. We are talking about a ball that without the player's contact pushing the ball out of play would not have.

Too much overthinking the issue. If you feel the ball was losing power and then regains speeds and often changes direction, it probably is not a deflected ball "off" the defender, but a ball that was deflected by the defender.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So, ball is hit down the line and stops just short of DBT. F7 goes after it, and the BR is rounding second going to third. F7 stumbles and inadvertently kicks the ball, which makes it go into DBT. We're supposed to kill play and send the BR back to second base, even though she had an easy triple??

I don't think that's what 8-4-3H intended.

I believe you are incorrect about intentions here.

Consider a similar case - typical ground rule double - bouncer over the homerun fence. Rabbit on 1st scores before the ball even bounces ... we put that runner back on 3rd anyway.

If the kick was inadvertent, we simply have a fair batted ball out of play - 2 bases from TOP. Period.