Dead Ball Penalty at End of 4th Down?

[Trent123]

I am a little league Dad who can't find an answer to the following situation

4th and 8, offense runs sweep left for 5 yards, runner goes out of bounds short of line to gain.
At conclusion of play, defender hits runner late, resulting in a personal foul.
Referee awards ball to defense on downs, change of possession, penalty enforced against the new team in possession, 1st and 25.

The Referee's explanation is that the offense surrendered the ball by failing to move the chains in 4 downs. The offending team is penalized but it does not affect their right to possession.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks -- Trent

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Trent123

I am a little league Dad who can't find an answer to the following situation

4th and 8, offense runs sweep left for 5 yards, runner goes out of bounds short of line to gain.
At conclusion of play, defender hits runner late, resulting in a personal foul.
Referee awards ball to defense on downs, change of possession, penalty enforced against the new team in possession, 1st and 25.

The Referee's explanation is that the offense surrendered the ball by failing to move the chains in 4 downs. The offending team is penalized but it does not affect their right to possession.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks -- Trent

They were right until they made it 1st and 25. Since the foul was not after the ready for play on first down, the chains are set after the penalty is enforced. 1st and 10 for B.

[Welpe]

The officials were almost correct in their enforcement. They are correct in that if Team A (the offense) fails to achieve the line to gain, Team B (the defense) is awarded a first down. This happens by rule as soon as the ball becomes dead. In this case, a dead ball foul after the down has ended, by it's nature, occurs after Team B had been awarded a new series.

The reason that I say the officials almost got it right is that Team B should have been awarded the ball but instead of 1st and 25, it should have been 1st and 10 since the chains had not been set yet and the ready for play had not been given yet.

[DLH17]

1st and 10 for B at the......spot where the ball went OOB?

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by DLH17

1st and 10 for B at the......spot where the ball went OOB?

the 15 yard penalty gets enforced from the spot where the ball went out, and then it would be B's ball 1st and 10.

The only thing they got wrong was making it 1st and 25...

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Dad...the best way to think about this is to initially take the late hit out of the equation since it happened after the play. Since the offense was unable to make the line to gain in their four downs, the ball goes over to the defense. So now it's B's ball, 1-10. Now put the late hit back into the equation. Penalize Team B fifteen yards for the late hit. Then reset the chains so it will be 1-10 for team B.

[Trent123]

Many thanks for setting me straight