Discarded "mask"

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by bluejay

I guess it would be good to know the proper rule for the face mask on the ground but what percent of fielders actually wear a mask and how often do they throw it down? Just curious because I have never seen it or heard of it. Also, although the rule only mentions a catcher's mask, what would be the difference?

To your first question, it really doesn't matter how often we see a fielder wear a mask and then remove it and throw it down. The fact is that it could happen, and the rules as written aren't very clear on how to handle it except for when it obstructs a runner.

What I find telling is that the NFHS casebook does specifically cover removed defensive players' facemasks in a caseplay, 1.8.4.A. And since rule 1-8-3 says only bats and catcher's masks are exempt from the loose equipment definition, then you could argue that NFHS treats those facemasks--as well as batter's helmets, loose shoes, loose hats, etc. etc.--as loose equipment for all intents and purposes.

I guess there's a reasonable expectation that a player isn't going to lose her facemask or batting helmet or hat or shoe or batting glove through the normal course of play. Only bats and catcher's helmets are exempt because they are always discarded.

[DRJ1960]

Does the fact that NFHS uses different terms ("loose equipment" vs "discarded equipment") impact your call?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

Does the fact that NFHS uses different terms ("loose equipment" vs "discarded equipment") impact your call?

Nope. To me, loose equipment is any equipment that is not in its proper place. It could've been detatched, discarded, removed, fallen off, blown off by the wind, whatever.

Would you rule obstuction if a runner was hindered by a discarded catcher's mask?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

Does the fact that NFHS uses different terms ("loose equipment" vs "discarded equipment") impact your call?

Yes. Loose equipment is an item not currently involved in the game, but left on the field; contact with the ball should always result in a blocked ball, any judgment of possible obstruction or interference should be strictly enforced.

Discarded equipment is something involved in the game that is normally expected to become part of the field (catcher's mask, batter's bat), or might accidently become loose (cap falls off while running, batting glove falls out of pocket) and contact can be ignored if not deemed interference or obstruction.

Detached equipment is something intentionally used improperly to impact on a play, and should always result in the minimum three base award.

Interestingly (or more likely considered overkill), NCAA insists that umpires make all participants (runners and defensive players) put all batting gloves FULLY in pockets, even fingertips cannot hang out, to make sure they don't impact on a play or result in a blocked ball ruling.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes. Loose equipment is an item not currently involved in the game, but left on the field; contact with the ball should always result in a blocked ball, any judgment of possible obstruction or interference should be strictly enforced.

Discarded equipment is something involved in the game that is normally expected to become part of the field (catcher's mask, batter's bat), or might accidently become loose (cap falls off while running, batting glove falls out of pocket) and contact can be ignored if not deemed interference or obstruction.

Detached equipment is something intentionally used improperly to impact on a play, and should always result in the minimum three base award.

Interestingly (or more likely considered overkill), NCAA insists that umpires make all participants (runners and defensive players) put all batting gloves FULLY in pockets, even fingertips cannot hang out, to make sure they don't impact on a play or result in a blocked ball ruling.

Hmmm, interesting. That's not clearly stated in either the rule book or case book. Is there some other authoritative NFHS document that covers this, or perhaps an official interpretation on its website?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Hmmm, interesting. That's not clearly stated in either the rule book or case book. Is there some other authoritative NFHS document that covers this, or perhaps an official interpretation on its website?

Compilation of various citations, including (and probably missing a few):

2-2-3
5-1-2b
Dead ball table #33, #34
Delayed dead ball table #4
8-4-3e and Penalty
8-4-3f Penalty and Exception 3
8-6-15 Penalty

[Tru_in_Blu]

Detached equipment is something intentionally used improperly to impact on a play, and should always result in the minimum three base award.

Doesn't the above apply to batted balls only? Maybe I've confused ASA w/ NFHS. I thought if a play was made with detached equipment, the call was a delayed dead ball and awards of 1 base for a pitched ball, 2 bases for a thrown ball, and three bases for a batted ball.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I also have a question on a catcher's detached mask/helmet.

Batter pops up. Catcher removes mask/helmet and tosses it into foul territory. She loses sight of the ball which:
a) on the fly, lands in the catcher's helmet in foul ground;
b) contacts the catcher's helmet in foul ground and bounces directly into fair territory where it comes to rest.

Is either or both simply a foul ball?

Thanx.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Detached equipment is something intentionally used improperly to impact on a play, and should always result in the minimum three base award.

Doesn't the above apply to batted balls only? Maybe I've confused ASA w/ NFHS. I thought if a play was made with detached equipment, the call was a delayed dead ball and awards of 1 base for a pitched ball, 2 bases for a thrown ball, and three bases for a batted ball.

You are correct. The three-base award only applies to batted balls that are judged to remain on the field. If the batted ball was headed over the fence fairly, then the award is four bases.