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Old Sun Jan 13, 2008, 10:06pm
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15 YARD FACE MASK FOUL - Enforced As A "tack-on"?

In the Colts-Chargers game today a receiver was fouled right as he came off the LOS (a 15 yd facemask). Later in the same play, he caught a forward pass well downfield, ran for an additional yard or two, and was tackled. After several different discussions between the R and the calling official (BJ I believe), and then between the R and the U, the penalty was enforced as a 15 yard tack-on from the end of the run (actually was a 1/2 distance enforcement). Maybe the fact that the flag was thrown by a deep official, and ended up in the area where the runner was tackled caused some confusion?

Was this enforcement correct? I thought for a 15 yard FM foul to be a tack-on it had to be against the runner? In this case the fouled player was not the runner at the time of the foul. What is the correct enforcement for this under NFL rules?

I believe this is the play (from NFL.com):

4-5-SD 34 (3:02)
18-P.Manning pass short middle to 44-D.Clark to SD 18 for 16 yards (32-E.Weddle).
PENALTY on SD-95-S.Phillips, Face Mask (15 Yards), 9 yards, enforced at SD 18.
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Last edited by RoyGardner; Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 05:06am.
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Old Mon Jan 14, 2008, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyGardner
In the Colts-Chargers game today a receiver was fouled right as he came off the LOS (a 15 yd facemask). Later in the same play, he caught a forward pass well downfield, ran for an additional yard or two, and was tackled. After several different discussions between the R and the calling official (BJ I believe), and then between the R and the U, the penalty was enforced as a 15 yard tack-on from the end of the run (actually was a 1/2 distance enforcement). Maybe the fact that the flag was thrown by a deep official, and ended up in the area where the runner was tackled caused some confusion?

Was this enforcement correct? I thought for a 15 yard FM foul to be a tack-on it had to be against the runner? In this case the fouled player was not the runner at the time of the foul. What is the correct enforcement for this under NFL rules?

I believe this is the play (from NFL.com):

4-5-SD 34 (3:02)
18-P.Manning pass short middle to 44-D.Clark to SD 18 for 16 yards (32-E.Weddle).
PENALTY on SD-95-S.Phillips, Face Mask (15 Yards), 9 yards, enforced at SD 18.

From the NFL rule Book Section 8:

Article 3 When the defense commits a personal foul (or unsportsmanlike foul) prior to
a completion of a legal forward pass from behind the line, the offense shall have the
choice either.
(a) the usual penalty—15 yards from the previous spot; or
(b) a 15-yard penalty enforced from the spot where the ball is dead.
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Old Mon Jan 14, 2008, 10:15pm
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regarding facemask infractions... During the Dallas-Giants game, a replay of a run, I was certain I saw a Dallas lineman pull the facemask of his teammate who was the runner. The talking heads were talking about something else which was the reason for the replay and there was no flag on the play. The facemask grab was a quick pull and let-go. The Dallas lineman surely didn't intend to have his hand end up in the facemask of his teammate but nevertheless it happened. I work high school games. Although I've never seen a facemask infraction of this nature, I would make the call and enforce the penalty. Safety being my motivator.
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 06:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan
regarding facemask infractions... During the Dallas-Giants game, a replay of a run, I was certain I saw a Dallas lineman pull the facemask of his teammate who was the runner. The talking heads were talking about something else which was the reason for the replay and there was no flag on the play. The facemask grab was a quick pull and let-go. The Dallas lineman surely didn't intend to have his hand end up in the facemask of his teammate but nevertheless it happened. I work high school games. Although I've never seen a facemask infraction of this nature, I would make the call and enforce the penalty. Safety being my motivator.
You have got to be kidding. I would *love* to be a fly on the coach's leg when you tried to explain that.
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 07:21am
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If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 07:49am
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I think you're forgetting a very important word there - opponent.

FED 9.4.3.h No player or nonplayer shall grasp an opponent’s face mask or any edge of a helmet opening.
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 10:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan
If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first
REPLY: I really hope you're kidding. Please don't ever flag a personal foul for a player against a teammate. You'll be explaining that one for years.
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 12:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M.
REPLY: I really hope you're kidding. Please don't ever flag a personal foul for a player against a teammate. You'll be explaining that one for years.
Let the family settle their own squabble.
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Old Tue Jan 15, 2008, 07:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan
If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first
Making up your own rules is OK as long as it's for "safety?"

GMAFB.
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Old Thu Jan 17, 2008, 10:12am
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I think you could make a case for helping the runner though!
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Old Thu Jan 17, 2008, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn
I think you could make a case for helping the runner though!
Maybe if he's dragging the runner upfield by the face mask. I don't think we can call intentional grounding though, sorry coach!
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