Trivia 3

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What makes it different... in both cases, the ball is under the control of the fielder. If they are able to pick it up, then they controlled it in that instant.

Don't have citation, but to me it is equivalent to a trapped ball. If ball is touching the ground in an effort to field the ball, "control" is being provided by the player and the ground. We don't have possession until the ball is lifted away.

For a play at a base, if in the process of catching the ball, the ball remains in contact with the ground or the base I wouldn't call an out unless the ball was lifted. But if Fn had ball in hand and the tags the base with the ball that would be an easy out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Don't have citation, but to me it is equivalent to a trapped ball. If ball is touching the ground in an effort to field the ball, "control" is being provided by the player and the ground. We don't have possession until the ball is lifted away.

For a play at a base, if in the process of catching the ball, the ball remains in contact with the ground or the base I wouldn't call an out unless the ball was lifted. But if Fn had ball in hand and the tags the base with the ball that would be an easy out.

There is a difference between a ball that is trapped under a glove, and one where the fielder is gripping it with the bare hand as we're discussing, IMO. With the glove, you can't see that the ball is being securely held underneath. With th bare hand, you can.

I honestly can't understand why some people feel that a gripped ball that is still touching the ground is not under the fielder's control. If I ever see a ball fall from a fielder's hand when he/she grips it and then lifts the hand, then I'll change my opinion on this. But I feel pretty confident that that won't happen.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I honestly can't understand why some people feel that a gripped ball that is still touching the ground is not under the fielder's control. If I ever see a ball fall from a fielder's hand when he/she grips it and then lifts the hand, then I'll change my opinion on this. But I feel pretty confident that that won't happen.

Really? You ever see a defender lose the grip on the ball when applying a tag? I have, so obviously that "grip" isn't all it is made out to be.

It is real simple. The fielder needs to demonstrate control of the ball. Okay, demonstrate it. All a smart player would do is just roll over the hand holding the ball on the base.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Really? You ever see a defender lose the grip on the ball when applying a tag? I have, so obviously that "grip" isn't all it is made out to be.

All due respect, c'mon. Apples and cantaloupes. Of course I've seen that. But that's because a force is applied to the fielder's hand that causes him/her to lose that grip.

What force other than gravity is at work here? What could possibly cause the fielder to lift his/her hand gripped around the ball, and the ball stays on the plate?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

All due respect, c'mon. Apples and cantaloupes. Of course I've seen that. But that's because a force is applied to the fielder's hand that causes him/her to lose that grip.

Not always. I've seen players lose the ball simply because they extend their arm reaching to the runner and the ball slipped out of their hand yet up to that point there seemed to be a good grip.

What force other than gravity is at work here? What could possibly cause the fielder to lift his/her hand gripped around the ball, and the ball stays on the plate?

Who knows, that is why the fielder is supposed to demonstrate control

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Really? You ever see a defender lose the grip on the ball when applying a tag? I have, so obviously that "grip" isn't all it is made out to be.

It is real simple. The fielder needs to demonstrate control of the ball. Okay, demonstrate it. All a smart player would do is just roll over the hand holding the ball on the base.

And my point (and others') is that picking it up without any sort of bobbling shows just that control. Picking up a ball off the ground and then rolling your hand over while still touching the ground with your hand, all while preparing to throw - that's a bit much.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

And my point (and others') is that picking it up without any sort of bobbling shows just that control. Picking up a ball off the ground and then rolling your hand over while still touching the ground with your hand, all while preparing to throw - that's a bit much.

To start, I didn't say pick up the ball and then roll the hand. I just said roll over the hand. IOW, put the hand or glove under the ball as is noted in the ISF manual.

The key is to show contol by not having the ball rest on or be trapped against anything other than the fielder's hand and/or glove.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

don't have citation, but to me it is equivalent to a trapped ball. If ball is touching the ground in an effort to field the ball, "control" is being provided by the player and the ground. We don't have possession until the ball is lifted away.

For a play at a base, if in the process of catching the ball, the ball remains in contact with the ground or the base i wouldn't call an out unless the ball was lifted. But if fn had ball in hand and the tags the base with the ball that would be an easy out.

+1