Use the Force?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I agree with you ruling, but lets add a little something extra. After R1 is tagged out by F6, can the Defense just appeal R1 missing 2B thereby having an advantageous Fourth Out?

If I'm not mistaken, in softball, unlike baseball, the advantageous fourth out may only be recorded on the scoring runner.

For example, let's say on this play, the runner going to second did tag second base, but then overslid the bag and was tagged for the third out. On the play, R1 from third passed home before the tag (time play), but she missed home plate. The defense may appeal the miss of home for the advantageous fourth out.

So I'm not sure you can have an advantageous fourth out here. What you may have (which is the crux of MD's question) is that the out at second is still a force out to negate the run. I'm not sure what the answer is on that one.

[Andy]

See my post above.....to the best of my knowledge, ASA is the only ruleset that limits the advantageous fourth out appeal to a runner that has scored.

In all other rulesets, as far as I know, the fourth out appeal in the play in the OP (force at second base) would be honored to negate the run. In ASA play, the umpires would not honor this appeal.

I freely admit that I am not familiar with all of the rulesets out there and it is entirely possible that one of the other alphabet soup organizations addresses the fourth out appeal differently.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If I'm not mistaken, in softball, unlike baseball, the advantageous fourth out may only be recorded on the scoring runner.

For example, let's say on this play, the runner going to second did tag second base, but then overslid the bag and was tagged for the third out. On the play, R1 from third passed home before the tag (time play), but she missed home plate. The defense may appeal the miss of home for the advantageous fourth out.

So I'm not sure you can have an advantageous fourth out here. What you may have (which is the crux of MD's question) is that the out at second is still a force out to negate the run. I'm not sure what the answer is on that one.

This reminds me of a discussion on eteamz once....Appeal vs. Play?

The runner has missed second. Is the tag of her an appeal of a missed base or a play on a runner who has missed the bag.

Rita