Batter Interference?

[Manny A]

ASA 18U rec game, and I'm solo. R1 at third base. Pitch is in the dirt, and the ball ends up behind the right-handed batter still in her box. The batter scoots back to get out of the box, anticipating I suppose that R1 would try to score, and she doesn't want to be in the way. She unintentionally heel-kicks the ball as she backs out, and the ball rolls to the backstop, allowing R1 to easily score. If the batter hadn't kicked it, R1 would not have even tried to come home, I'm sure.

Is this cause for an interference call under 7-6P, Q or S? Would it have mattered if the ball was out of the box when the batter kicked it?

[Andy]

Well....7-6-P wouldn't apply, since the catcher is not throwing or catching a ball.

7-6-S probably doesn't apply since there is no play at the plate as I read your description.

7-6-Q could be used to call the interference, since the batter is activey moving and kicks the ball away, hindering the catcher from retrieving it.

I need to know a bit more, however. Was there a play that was being interferred with by the batter contacting the ball? From your description, it doesn't seem that R1 is trying to advance home until after the ball is kicked away. If F2 was able to retrieve the ball would there be a play on R1 at third? If not, could you just kill the ball, put R1 back at third and play from there? 7-6-S has an exception similar to this, but specifically mentions a batter making contact with a return throw from the catcher to the pitcher.

[MD Longhorn]

You can't call someone out unless the batter's actions prevented a reasonable chance at an out. But at the same time, you can't allow batter's actions to provide an unearned advantage for the offense. Kill the play and move on. No out, no run. Runner on 3rd.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You can't call someone out unless the batter's actions prevented a reasonable chance at an out. But at the same time, you can't allow batter's actions to provide an unearned advantage for the offense. Kill the play and move on. No out, no run. Runner on 3rd.

Rule reference?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Rule reference?

I can see using the exception to 7.6.P-S for not calling the out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

I need to know a bit more, however. Was there a play that was being interferred with by the batter contacting the ball? From your description, it doesn't seem that R1 is trying to advance home until after the ball is kicked away. If F2 was able to retrieve the ball would there be a play on R1 at third? If not, could you just kill the ball, put R1 back at third and play from there? 7-6-S has an exception similar to this, but specifically mentions a batter making contact with a return throw from the catcher to the pitcher.

That's the crux of the issue. To me, the batter did nothing wrong. She actually tried to do the right thing by backing out of the box to avoid any possible play at home, and kicked the ball that she had no idea was behind her feet.

I suppose the 7-6P-S Exception could apply. The batter did prevent the catcher from retrieving the ball while there was no play being made. It would have been a stretch for me to assume the incident prevented F2 from making a play on R1 going back to third base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SRW

Rule reference?

What would be the rule reference for CALLING an out?

[Tex]

Quote by Texas State Rule's Interpreter (ASA and NFHS), pertaining to a similar play, a few years ago.

Pitch ball bounces off catcher and/or backstop. The ball goes between the batter’s legs still in the batter’s box. Batter kicks the ball as she moves out of the batter’s box.

Umpire: Batter interference, batter out, runner back to previous base. The key is a movement by the batter that hinders the catcher. A batter does not have to move, reason being that if we make them move, they are subject to be called out for interference.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I can see using the exception to 7.6.P-S for not calling the out.

I disagree. The batter did not "accidentally make contact with the catcher's return throw to the pitcher." In the OP, the batter actively hindered the catcher while in the batter's box. There was no throw yet... F2 didn't have the ball. I'm using 7-6-Q and getting an out here, not the exception.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

What would be the rule reference for CALLING an out?

7-6-Q. See above.

Now answer my question to you.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Tex

Quote by Texas State Rule's Interpreter (ASA and NFHS), pertaining to a similar play, a few years ago.

Pitch ball bounces off catcher and/or backstop. The ball goes between the batter’s legs still in the batter’s box. Batter kicks the ball as she moves out of the batter’s box.

Umpire: Batter interference, batter out, runner back to previous base. The key is a movement by the batter that hinders the catcher. A batter does not have to move, reason being that if we make them move, they are subject to be called out for interference.

Does the interpreter recommend calling an out if no baserunners are attempting to advance and there is no play to be had?

No play = no interference

In the OP, it is not explicitly stated, but I read that the runner on third is only a step or two off of third and did not try to advance UNTIL the ball was kicked away. When the ball was kicked by the batter, there was no "play" available to the catcher.

I like and somewhat agree with mbcrowder's resolution, but the only rule I can begin to stretch that far is 10-1.....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SRW

7-6-Q. See above.

Now answer my question to you.

7-6-Q: By actively hindering the catcher while in the batter's box.

A) this was not active, it was passive. Active implies an intentional act of some sort.
B) the catcher was not hindered - the ball was.

Going through each line of this rule, none of them says or even implies that this batter should be out.

Edit to add: I'm not intentionally trying to avoid your question. I can not provide a rule reference that says the batter is not out - but we don't call outs simply because we feel like it... outs come from "The batter is out when ..." - and if none of those statements apply, then the batter is not out. There is no section that lists all the things a batter can do and NOT be out...

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

In the OP, it is not explicitly stated, but I read that the runner on third is only a step or two off of third and did not try to advance UNTIL the ball was kicked away. When the ball was kicked by the batter, there was no "play" available to the catcher...

That's exactly what happened. No way R1 was going anywhere given that the ball was initially a couple of feet away from F2 until the batter backed away. If the batter hadn't kicked the ball, F2 would have simply picked it up, looked at R1, then toss the ball back to F1. No way in heck would F2 make any play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

That's exactly what happened. No way R1 was going anywhere given that the ball was initially a couple of feet away from F2 until the batter backed away. If the batter hadn't kicked the ball, F2 would have simply picked it up, looked at R1, then toss the ball back to F1. No way in heck would F2 make any play.

If there's no play, there's no play to interfere with, thus no interference. The SPIRIT of the exception Mike mentions is that if there is no play, and batters action is unintentional, but batters action creates an opportunity for advancement, we should simply kill it. Yes, I'm aware that the exception is worded more strictly than this...

But if we're just reading the rules as written, you can't have an out here when no one is trying to advance. The spirit of the exception allows us to prevent the offense from gaining advantage by batter's inadvertent act.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

I disagree. The batter did not "accidentally make contact with the catcher's return throw to the pitcher." In the OP, the batter actively hindered the catcher while in the batter's box. There was no throw yet... F2 didn't have the ball. I'm using 7-6-Q and getting an out here, not the exception.

I didn't say it was specific, but to be honest (of course, I'm always honest), the "Exception" is too specific as it pertains to multiple rules INCLUDING 7.6.Q not all of which involve a catcher's throw to the pitcher.

Remember, you still need a play with which to interfere and at the time of the contact with the ball, there was no play.