Unrep Sub: Say Something or Stay Mum?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

ASA 6-B, as quoted in my previous post, does state how an unreported sub is to be handled.....as a protest by the offended team.

Not trying to be thick-headed, but in my mind I read how a violation is handled as meaning that the umpire cannot rule on the unreported substitute unless the offended team protests.

In other words, if I had let this batter bat and get on base, I could not call her out myself before the next pitch for being unreported. The defense would have had to protest the violation.

That really doesn't prevent me from going to the coach and letting him/her know I detected something amiss, in my opinion.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

That really doesn't prevent me from going to the coach and letting him/her know I detected something amiss, in my opinion.

Right there with you.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Manny A

That really doesn't prevent me from going to the coach and letting him/her know I detected something amiss, in my opinion.

Would you rule on any other rule violations (which this is -- a violation of the substitution/re-entry rule) before it is brought to your attention? Already mentioned was batting out of order. How about illegal re-entry (she was in the improper batting position)? How about a runner missing a base . . . leaving early . . . using the improper portion of the base at first base . . . missing a base?

In your situation (and the one's I've mentioned), you do remain silent, as (as also mentioned before), you took away a play from the defense.

Not to sound pithy, but do you need a directive from ASA/OKC to tell you NOT to intervene?

Now, if you were playing under NFHS rules, the umpire CAN discover an unreported substitute/re-entry. At which point, you issue the team warning (if it is the first time).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

How about a runner missing a base . .

No... the rules specifically say the umpire may not rule on an appeal play until it is appealed

Originally Posted by Big Slick

. leaving early . .

Yes, not an appeal play.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

. using the improper portion of the base at first base . .

No, if the runner, since this is an appeal play. Yes, if this is the defense, since the runner is not out.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

. missing a base?

Is there an echo in here?

As I already said, I would not intervene on an unreported substitute. Let the defense protest if they notice.

And, I would not enter an illegal player on my lineup card without first telling the coach "you can't do that, coach."

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not trying to be thick-headed, but in my mind I read how a violation is handled as meaning that the umpire cannot rule on the unreported substitute unless the offended team protests.

In other words, if I had let this batter bat and get on base, I could not call her out myself before the next pitch for being unreported. The defense would have had to protest the violation.

That really doesn't prevent me from going to the coach and letting him/her know I detected something amiss, in my opinion.

What about fedelation? Never mind. Big slick got it.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I have been guilty of the same thing......it is not going to mean the end of the world.

I liked it when we did not allow illegal things to take place.....IJS.

Joel

[Tgoblue]

Guy it's a game not a life change moment nice job of keeping it in it's proper perspective that being the spirit of the game is what make it just that a game let them play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tgoblue

Guy it's a game not a life change moment nice job of keeping it in it's proper perspective that being the spirit of the game is what make it just that a game let them play.

(............)
(,,,,,,,,,,,)
(;;;; )

Here's some leftover punctuation, your keyboard seems to have run out.

[MrRabbit]

Lets take this a step farther and say you are using official scorekeepers...
1. The coach brings you a change and it is illegal and you know it, do you report it to the official score who now in turn tells you it is illegal, what do you do?

Under above logic I take it you would tell her to be quiet.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not trying to be thick-headed, but in my mind I read how a violation is handled as meaning that the umpire cannot rule on the unreported substitute unless the offended team protests.

In other words, if I had let this batter bat and get on base, I could not call her out myself before the next pitch for being unreported. The defense would have had to protest the violation.

That really doesn't prevent me from going to the coach and letting him/her know I detected something amiss, in my opinion.

You are preventing the defense from getting an out. If R1 misses 2nd base, we don't tell her to go back and touch 2nd. We don't give a way that she missed 2nd. Same situation. Both are appeal plays by the offended team. What are you going to do if this was on defense and you noticed it. The other team may be holding on to the fact that there is a unreported defensive sub. They may want to pull out that card when it benefits them which is their right.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

...Both are appeal plays by the offended team...

If by "both" you meant the unreported sub v the missed base, no, they aren't both appeal plays. The unreported sub is handled as a protest.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If by "both" you meant the unreported sub v the missed base, no, they aren't both appeal plays. The unreported sub is handled as a protest.

The rule book says protest but it is not really a protest. A protest by definition is a formal request to review an umpires rule interpretation. This is an appeal its just not called that by ASA.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

The rule book says protest but it is not really a protest. A protest by definition is a formal request to review an umpires rule interpretation. This is an appeal its just not called that by ASA.

If you say so... Me? I go by what is in the book.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If you say so... Me? I go by what is in the book.

9.1. Protests...

A. Misinterpretation of a playing rule....
B. Illegal Player
C. Ineligible Player

No where is an unreported sub listed as a protest in 9.1. In the definition and in rule 9.1 (both are just as much a part of the rule book as 4.6) this is not identified as a protest. ASA either needs to add unreported sub to 9.1 and change the definition or add unreported sub to the list of appeal plays.

We are, however, arguing semantics. Whether we call it an appeal or a protest, I have no doubt that we will both enforce the rule correctly.

I too go by the rule book. I just realize that the rule book is not perfect. It was written by man and we make mistakes. It would be no less perfect if I was the author!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

9.1. Protests...

A. Misinterpretation of a playing rule....
B. Illegal Player
C. Ineligible Player

No where is an unreported sub listed as a protest in 9.1. In the definition and in rule 9.1 (both are just as much a part of the rule book as 4.6) this is not identified as a protest. ASA either needs to add unreported sub to 9.1 and change the definition or add unreported sub to the list of appeal plays.

We are, however, arguing semantics. Whether we call it an appeal or a protest, I have no doubt that we will both enforce the rule correctly.

I too go by the rule book. I just realize that the rule book is not perfect. It was written by man and we make mistakes. It would be no less perfect if I was the author!

Well, the main difference is that the book clearly states that the umpire cannot rule on an appeal play until the appeal is made, so if an unreported sub was an appeal, this entire thread would have been 2 posts long!