The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
obstruction award after dead ball

All rule sets that I am aware of state that when an obstructed runner is tagged out before they reach the base that in the umpires judgment they would have reached had there not been obstruction, you call dead ball. My question is in Fed ball where do you place the other runners? I am talking about runners that were not affected by the obstruction. The NCAA rule book is very clear on this. It says if the runners are at least halfway to the next base, you give them that base. There is no mention that these runners need to be affected by the obstruction in order to award this way. Fed rules say I believe, after the ball is called dead, you award the obstructed runner and all other runners affected by the obstruction, the base they would have reached had there not been obstruction. Like I said earlier, what do you use as a guideline for placing runners that were not affected by the obstruction. Rule reference also please.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
Fed rules say I believe, after the ball is called dead, you award the obstructed runner and all other runners affected by the obstruction, the base they would have reached had there not been obstruction.
This is the same as ASA, just worded differently. When you killed the play, you "affected" the runners in play. The OBS (indirectly perhaps) affected them by not allowing them to reach whatever base you feel they would have reached. Place them where they would have reached absent the obstruction and subsequent tag and dead ball.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
Maybe the wording should be, runners affected by the umpire calling the ball dead, not runners affected by the obstruction.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:21pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
I never thought there was a real difference in how to treat it amongst the rule sets. The NCAA just gives some clarifying guidance for the umpires to consider.

Of course, that guidance isn't always followed, as NCAA A.R. 9.3.5.1 clearly instructs. If a runner is obstructed as she is returning to a previous base, and a trail runner is on that base, the trail runner has to go back to her previous base unless forced.

BTW, you are incorrect when you say that the NCAA rules do not mention affected runners. 9.3.1 Effect states, "If the obstructed base runner is put out before reaching the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction, a dead ball is called at the time of the apparent put out. The obstructed base runner and each other base runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base(s) she/they should have reached had there not been obstruction."
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker

Last edited by Manny A; Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:25pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
This is the same as ASA, just worded differently. When you killed the play, you "affected" the runners in play. The OBS (indirectly perhaps) affected them by not allowing them to reach whatever base you feel they would have reached. Place them where they would have reached absent the obstruction and subsequent tag and dead ball.
I still believe it is hard to place other runners where they would have been had their not have been obstruction. Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I never thought there was a real difference in how to treat it amongst the rule sets. The NCAA just gives some clarifying guidance for the umpires to consider.

Of course, that guidance isn't always followed, as NCAA A.R. 9.3.5.1 clearly instructs. If a runner is obstructed as she is returning to a previous base, and a trail runner is on that base, the trail runner has to go back to her previous base unless forced.

BTW, you are incorrect when you say that the NCAA rules do not mention affected runners. 9.3.1 Effect states, "If the obstructed base runner is put out before reaching the base she should have reached had there been no obstruction, a dead ball is called at the time of the apparent put out. The obstructed base runner and each other base runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base(s) she/they should have reached had there not been obstruction."
You are correct. I read too quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
I still believe it is hard to place other runners where they would have been had their not have been obstruction. Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?
Dave
Don't give the fielding team any benefit of the doubt here. Don't even think "maybe they don't throw home" - where was the runner when you killed it? Near 2nd? I'd keep them there. Most of the way to 3rd - I'm giving her third.

To me, the tough ones are when the extra runner is before the obstructed runner. R1 on first, BR obstructed rounding 1st on a likely double, but she's thrown out at 2nd. When you call DB, R1 is 3-4 steps past 3rd. If we don't kill it, F4 or F6 have a decent play at R1 at home... where does she go? That's the tough one for me.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:23pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
Case in point. Runner on 1st. Ball hit to the gap. Runner from first is obstructed at second base and continues home where she is tagged out. Batter runner continues toward third base. We call dead ball when runner at home is tagged out. If there hadn't been obstruction, maybe there isn't a throw home because she was real close to home, so maybe the batter/runner stays at second not risking getting thrown out at third. Where do I place the batter/runner?
I've got her staying at third base. You really can't penalize the BR because the defense was affected by the obstruction call. They screwed up, not the offense.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 14, 2012, 03:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 870
Awarding bases to unobstructed runners adds to the challenge.
What you must do upon you or your partner signaling obstruction is evaluate ALL runners to the baes(s) they would have reached without OBS. I would request a crew meeting to sort it all out with the available eyes on the field before making the awards.
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dead ball/base award question gpdeppert Baseball 2 Tue Apr 03, 2012 09:31am
Obstruction award? bigsig Softball 3 Tue Apr 24, 2007 09:54am
Dead Ball Award U_of_I_Blue Softball 4 Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:54pm
Award after throw goes dead Carl Childress Baseball 44 Sat Jan 15, 2005 06:49am
Dead Ball Award (NFHS) collinb Baseball 3 Wed Jul 16, 2003 04:48pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1