Illegal Pitch?

[SRW]

You tell us - what rule in ASA and NFHS do you think she violated? Look it up... then say something like "I think she violated rule x.x.xx because it appears to me she did yyy." Don't just post a video and say "do you think she's illegal, and give me the rule references, please."

[tmielke]

Originally Posted by SRW

You tell us - what rule in ASA and NFHS do you think she violated? Look it up... then say something like "I think she violated rule x.x.xx because it appears to me she did yyy." Don't just post a video and say "do you think she's illegal, and give me the rule references, please."

I believe it is illegal based on FED 6.1.4.b and ASA 6.3.b and 6.3.c. I didn't ask for a rules reference, just an opinion. I can look things up myself. Had a long discussion with her coach about this last night. This is why I posted it here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tmielke

I believe it is illegal based on FED 6.1.4.b and ASA 6.3.b and 6.3.c. I didn't ask for a rules reference, just an opinion. I can look things up myself. Had a long discussion with her coach about this last night. This is why I posted it here.

But when you talk with a partner or the issue comes to a UIC, you need to let them know what you are seeing that makes you suspiscious.

Based upon your statement that part of the ball disappears into the glove, I would agree she separates and returns to bring the hands together.

I would have to see how she adjusted the first violation before moving onto the second.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Illegal because she comes past the hip twice.

Edit: Actually it appears she comes past the hip 3 times.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Illegal because she comes past the hip twice.

Edit: Actually it appears she comes past the hip 3 times.

I see no smiley face, but surely you are joking...

[tcblue13]

Maybe NCASAUmp knows a good editor. He is up on that tekkie stuff (but won't fix your computer)

[Tex]

I agree, double touch, illegal in both FED and ASA.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Illegal because she comes past the hip twice.

Edit: Actually it appears she comes past the hip 3 times.

It would do you a great service to find a specific rule reference for what you believe this to violate.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I had a phone call from a coach at the 18 Gold Qualifier this past weekend in Florida (I was in Las Vegas, instead), asking about a TEAM FLA pitcher doing a similar thing that the umpire insisted was legal. As did the UIC (also state UIC).

The coach said (I wasn't there, just repeating his statements) that in an advanced umpire clinic, he was told 6.3.B (removes one hand from the ball and returns the ball to both hands) only applied if the ball was actually and completely placed inside the glove a second time, that despite the hands obviously touching together several times on most pitches, the other "touches" didn't count (in the violation commonly named "double-touch").

I may have missed that clinic. Am I missing something here?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I had a phone call from a coach at the 18 Gold Qualifier this past weekend in Florida (I was in Las Vegas, instead), asking about a TEAM FLA pitcher doing a similar thing that the umpire insisted was legal. As did the UIC (also state UIC).

The coach said (I wasn't there, just repeating his statements) that in an advanced umpire clinic, he was told 6.3.B (removes one hand from the ball and returns the ball to both hands) only applied if the ball was actually and completely placed inside the glove a second time, that despite the hands obviously touching together several times on most pitches, the other "touches" didn't count (in the violation commonly named "double-touch").

I may have missed that clinic. Am I missing something here?

Completely new one on me. 6-1-E says "shall bring the hands together". Any clinic I have ever been to has indicated a pitcher only has to touch the hands together to fulfill this requirement. Not sure how you get from the first touch to the second now requiring the ball to actually be placed inside the glove.

Not sure about the situation you have posted, but, based on the original video posted, even if the 2nd touch required the ball to be completely inside the glove, would we not now have a violation of 6-3-C? Once she has separated the hands and swung the arm back, has she not started her forward motion once the arm starts to come forward? Touching again, then dropping the arm to the rear a 2nd time would seem to me to be a stoppage and reversal of forward motion.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I had a phone call from a coach at the 18 Gold Qualifier this past weekend in Florida (I was in Las Vegas, instead), asking about a TEAM FLA pitcher doing a similar thing that the umpire insisted was legal. As did the UIC (also state UIC).

The coach said (I wasn't there, just repeating his statements) that in an advanced umpire clinic, he was told 6.3.B (removes one hand from the ball and returns the ball to both hands) only applied if the ball was actually and completely placed inside the glove a second time, that despite the hands obviously touching together several times on most pitches, the other "touches" didn't count (in the violation commonly named "double-touch").

I may have missed that clinic. Am I missing something here?

I find that, well, let's say "questionable". Hand and glove coming together only counts the first time, but not the next two or three times unless the ball/hand is completely submerged into the glove?

Think I'll wait for the clarification to come out before I address this to anyone else.

[SpringtownHawk]

Technically, the pitcher touched twice but, has she gained any advantage, especially at game speed, just say'n?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by SpringtownHawk

Technically, the pitcher touched twice but, has she gained any advantage, especially at game speed, just say'n?

Where in the rule book does it say anything about only if gaining advantage? You enforce the rules as written otherwise you are picking and choosing what you personally wish to enforce.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

It would do you a great service to find a specific rule reference for what you believe this to violate.

6.2 says the pitch starts when the hands are separated once they've been placed together

and I believe 6.3.D says "must not make two revolutions..."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

6.2 says the pitch starts when the hands are separated once they've been placed together

and I believe 6.3.D says "must not make two revolutions..."

But the pitcher can pass the hip twice and make less than two revolutions. I believe the point is that the number of times the ball passes the hip is irrelevant to FP rules.