Out or Safe?

[SRW]

DeJesus is out after collision

Apply this play to ASA / NFHS / NCAA. Rule references, please.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SRW

DeJesus is out after collision

Apply this play to ASA / NFHS / NCAA. Rule references, please.

If, as it looked, the runner was knocked off the base by the fielder, that would be OBS and award runner 2nd.
No time to look up rule cites.

If the ump judged the runner was off because of his own momentum, out ok.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If, as it looked, the runner was knocked off the base by the fielder, that would be OBS and award runner 2nd.
No time to look up rule cites.

If the ump judged the runner was off because of his own momentum, out ok.

Can you have OBS WITH possession of the ball?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Can you have OBS WITH possession of the ball?

No (but you knew that ).

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No (but you knew that ).

It was rather rhetorical.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'd have a hard time calling a runner out on a play like that. Runner had the base and the only reason he lost contact with it was because he was physically knocked off it.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SRW

DeJesus is out after collision

Apply this play to ASA / NFHS / NCAA. Rule references, please.

Safe. No rule reference because it's not in the book. Allow me to posit a similar play and ask for your rule reference on it. Runner comes into second with a stand up double. Short stop takes the relay throw, runs up to the runner, bear hugs the runner and gently deposits her three feet off the base while tagging her.
It's not obstruction and there's no rule against it but the defense can't push a runner off a base to get an out.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by youngump

Safe. No rule reference because it's not in the book. Allow me to posit a similar play and ask for your rule reference on it. Runner comes into second with a stand up double. Short stop takes the relay throw, runs up to the runner, bear hugs the runner and gently deposits her three feet off the base while tagging her.
It's not obstruction and there's no rule against it but the defense can't push a runner off a base to get an out.

Kind of like Hrbek in the 1991 Series?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Kind of like Hrbek in the 1991 Series?

Careful... you'll be banned from MN for questioning that obviously correct call!

[Dakota]

Since Hrbek was brought up (of course, we knew it would be), the umpire that made the call explained that the runner has to maintain control of his body after contact with the bag, and that (in his judgment) Gant was falling off the base and would have broken contact with or without Hrbek.

You can't make the same argument for the play in this thread, but you can make the comparison that MNBlue did... if a (legal) collision can cause the loss of control of the ball, why can't a (legal) collision cause the loss of contact with the bag?

Change the timing of the play by just a fraction of a second... tag is applied just before the foot touches the bag, but the collision causes the ball to fall out. Safe, right? Why does the offense get the right to demonstrate loss of control of the ball, but the defense doesn't have the parallel right to demonstrate loss of control of the body in maintaining contact with the bag?

BTW, I would not have ruled that an out in amateur fastpitch, but the discussion is interesting...

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Careful... you'll be banned from MN for questioning that obviously correct call!

But he will be welcomed here in Atlanta!

[MD Longhorn]

Safe in ASA. Safe in NCAA SB. Safe in Dixie. Safe in USSSA. Safe in USFA. Safe in NFHS. Safe in LL SB.

Safe in MLB. Safe in other OBR. Safe in NCAA BB. Safe in Pony. Safe in LL BB.

I'm sure I missed a few, but I hope I was clear in my opinion.

(I do agree that it's rather odd that this is not officially covered by the rules in ANY of these codes).

(Hrbek ruling was bad as well, but it was bad in judgement and not rule. There's no way Gant's momentum suddenly causes his leg to lift straight up.)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

IMJ, this is not a collision which was inherently caused by the lay-out of the field and manner in which the game is played. I would consult with the PU and utilize 10.1 to rule the runner safe.

AFA the clip, you need to remember the league in which this occurred. And the TH was wrong, it was not a late slide, it was a well executed pop-up.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

IMJ, this is not a collision which was inherently caused by the lay-out of the field and manner in which the game is played. I would consult with the PU and utilize 10.1 to rule the runner safe.

AFA the clip, you need to remember the league in which this occurred. And the TH was wrong, it was not a late slide, it was a well executed attempted pop-up.

He never completed his pop-up slide because of the collision at 2nd. What I find amazing is that there is no explicit rule to cover this. We have to go to rule 10.1. This should be covered more explicitly.